Spinoff : apparent physics changes in test patches [Archive]

Bob Smith

28th November 2006, 17:37

Josh - this is not a thread for feature requests, however minor, unless they are relevant to a feature being worked on in the test patches

tomylee - please clarify, there cannot have been physics changes with U30 or you'd OOS disconnected upon joining a non-U30 server. Perhaps it's in your mind. ;)

tomylee

28th November 2006, 17:59

AndroidXP

28th November 2006, 18:24

When I started using U30 (before U) I just copied the hole setting folder to the U30, so there are no setup changes from my side. For example the shift indicator appears now 2-3 km/h later, means I can stay longer in the gear. The car is easier to handle in corners, does way less break out in the back (same setup!!) and the breaking is a bit different as well.
It notice a bit with the FXR as well but not that much.

I tried the same back and forth and all the time I can see a difference and I have to handle the car in an other way.Well, see for yourself: make a replay in U and try to play it back in U30. If it still works, the physics haven't changed. Btw, the speed difference is because the speedometer now works differently. In patch U it was still the old 100% accurate speedo, now it is a more realistic one that measures speed from the differential, and thus has a slight error due to tyre dimensions and slip.

Maybe the decreased sound lag makes U30 easier for you to handle? Who knows.

tomylee

28th November 2006, 19:09

I can give more throttle earlier and the car will not break out.
I will later on drive again U and I'm sure I will have more problems to keep the car stable in the corners.

[DUcK]

4th December 2006, 09:36

anybody notice any big differences with gti?
today i only just downloaded it... i know the speedo has been changed accordingly or somethin, which is about 1.8 - 2 kmh faster evrywhere..
but it handles alot different, and the splits seem slower.. :shrug:
i was taking perfect lines today, driving what probably would have been under wr times, yet i could only manage 0.5 secs off my wr.. lol
i know sometimes u have 'off' days, but im never 0.5 off my times, 0.2 at the most...
so yeah.. thats my two cents :D

Tweaker

4th December 2006, 09:40

Nothing has changed in the physics. If it has, then you wouldn't be able to play anyone online. This is a "compatible" patch which means everyone is essentially using the same physics as the old patch U (or T), it just has new features for UI and other things noted in this thread. Nothing is different about the car's performance, it's just you ;)

[DUcK]

4th December 2006, 09:44

ohh man, im teling you its change hahaha... seriously
i know im fair shit.. but still im never .5 off the pace :P
oh well ill re download u28 or something and see how that goes :)

tomylee

4th December 2006, 09:59

Thats what I did say about the FZR, the handeling has changed IMHO.

tristancliffe

4th December 2006, 10:09

It can't have though. If it had changed then replays, hotlaps, and online driving wouldn't work anymore.

Something has changed in your brain, your PC or your controllers, but LFS physics are the same as in T. That HAVE to be, there is no conjecture about it.

tomylee

4th December 2006, 10:29

Why qould replays not work?

AndroidXP

4th December 2006, 10:32

axus

4th December 2006, 10:43

Because replays only store the player's inputs. If you watch a replay, it uses the current physics engine and feeds it with the stored inputs. If you have the same physics engine as at the time the replay was recorded, you will get the same result upon watching it.

If the physics change only one tiny bit, the replay will go OOS (out of sync) and it will be broken. Thus, the still working replays are the ultimate proof the physics have not changed.

I think they also store position or something like that too, to which the physics results are compared and if that doesn't match, then you get the OOS error. Otherwise you have no way of knowing if you're in sync or not because you have nothing to compare it to.

RAYfighter

4th December 2006, 10:48

I think they also store position or something like that too, to which the physics results are compared and if that doesn't match, then you get the OOS error. Otherwise you have no way of knowing if you're in sync or not because you have nothing to compare it to.

And even then it is the perfect proof the physics have not changed, right?

AndroidXP

4th December 2006, 10:49

That's true, I suppose it's similar to MPR's, just that you have correct inputs 100% of the time, so you don't notice any car jumps :)

Maybe it would even be technically possible to replay such slightly OOS files, but Scawen decided against it for whatever reason? Or probably the stored positions aren't actually there to set the car position, but just for OOS checks, as you said.

tomylee

4th December 2006, 10:51

I will try this week U again to see how I'm doing there with it.

Bob Smith

4th December 2006, 14:51

Yes, yo do that. :pillepall

mrodgers

4th December 2006, 21:45

So.... we have one guy who says the physics has changed because he is faster, and another guy who says they changed because he is now slower. Hmmmm.

I do not know tommylee, but I do know Duck (Hi Duck :wave23d: ).

I'm guessing that something with the new workings of the sound is affecting both (sound reworked for Vista). Perhaps tommylee is now hearing how the car is handling better, thus he is more in tune with the car, thus better lap times. Where Duck, is a much faster racer and even further in tune with the sounds than tommylee, and the difference in how the sound works now is just throwing him off. :shrug: Yea, I'm just talking out my you-know-what (do we have a smiley for that? LOL)

glyphon

4th December 2006, 22:49

sounds like variations in the wind conditions to me.

bbman

4th December 2006, 23:58

Or they both found out about the new speedo and noticed the effect it had on them... tomylee saw a higher speed on the speedo, thinking: "Wow, I'm faster than before" and Duck, used to the old system, was now slower (timewise), as he took the corners at the speed he used to - which was in fact slower than with the old speedo...

Fischfix

5th December 2006, 02:51

pretty reasonable explanation :)

[DUcK]

5th December 2006, 05:04

hehhe.. nah coz i was taking corners about 4 kmh faster than i used to, and i was 2kmh quicker down each straight:)
well.. i got rid of 'u30'... and i was back on pace :shrug:
hehe.. maybe my computer is a noob :D
oh yeah... hi nighthawk!!

axus

5th December 2006, 07:03

Maybe you just rely too much on your speedo when you drive which is now inaccurate so you can't really rely on it. Only time I look at my speedo is on a straight when there's wind... and when I'm setting up a car's gearing. You shouldn't be looking at the speedo through corners. You'll go much faster without it. You can see the shift light with peripheral vision.

George Kuyumji

5th December 2006, 10:52

It's all in your mind

Glenn67

5th December 2006, 12:15

Maybe you just rely too much on your speedo when you drive which is now inaccurate so you can't really rely on it... You shouldn't be looking at the speedo through corners. You'll go much faster without it...

And your saying this to the current WR holder in that car/track combo :razz: :D

axus

5th December 2006, 12:23

And your saying this to the current WR holder in that car/track combo :razz: :D

Hotlappers. Pffffffft. :p

spyshagg

5th December 2006, 12:31

the big change for me was the speed reading. When the car jumps a bit or the wheels spin, the announced Km/h goes up a lot.

i was used to figure out how well im positioned in the curve by using the speed reading and the angle and "squid" sounds.... you know, things that help replace the real life feeling of the car.
But now, in most curves the wheel spin and the reading goes up lolll

its not a physic change but it affects my driving, maybe its whats going on with you guys too

GP4Flo

5th December 2006, 15:21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect :shrug:

Niels Heusinkveld

5th December 2006, 16:54

Perhaps you run a slightly different view angle, perhaps the 'timing changes' that seem to be some part of the recent patches has a minor influence on input reactions or framerate, or even sound lag.. Things that don't change the physics but the 'experience' al be it slightly..

cmckowen

5th December 2006, 19:33

No they must be right, some people are being aided by the patch and some arn't....Check here is proof: PartyBoyU took the BLGP XFG WR when [DUcK] was struggling. :thumb:

I have never been so sarcastic in my life, physics updates my furry ass!

bbman

5th December 2006, 19:36

And your saying this to the current WR holder in that car/track combo :razz: :D

That's exactly the reason why he is slower: Used to the old, everytime right speedo and always looking at it to maximise speed rather than hearing and seeing (unfortunately, the feeling part can't be simulated) what the car is doing and reacting to that...

@spyshagg: I find the speed dropping under braking (when the wheels lock up, that is) is far worse than the speed jump with spinning tires... Maybe you run very little power lock at your diff?

Bawbag

5th December 2006, 21:59

And your saying this to the current WR holder in that car/track combo :razz: :D

Well Charles beat me but heh, talk about tempting fate? It's your fault he lost the WR! :D

Ps. Sorry for the OT reply, couldn't help it and I hope the sarcastc Charles stays. :D

Glenn67

6th December 2006, 12:33

It's your fault he lost the WR! :D

:p nah I think [DUck] would have been suprised it took PBU so long to take it back :razz:

Anyway I agree with most, in that it is subjective. (I just couldn't help but stir Axus, it's the aussie in me :x )
Anyone ever try LFS on someone elses rig, and be amazed at how hard it is to get good lap times :scratchch whenever I drop over to my old mans place and do a few laps of LFS I can never get good lap times, always 0.5 - 1.0 sec off pace even though we have very similar hardware (down to the same wheel) but his is configured a little different to mine.
I find you become highly tuned to how you have everything setup and ANY changes will throw you for awhile :tilt: so the way the speedo has changed will throw some people for a while I have no doubt...

Boris Lozac

6th December 2006, 19:32

Anyone ever try LFS on someone elses rig, and be amazed at how hard it is to get good lap times :scratchch

I know what you're talking about..
I had that same feeling when i played RBR or LFS at friends house.. It's like a different game or something.. :tilt:
I guess it's the same like with food.. Whenever i eat something at someone else's place, it tastes better than at my place.. :scratchch

[DUcK]

7th December 2006, 02:42

yeah you guys are all right...
i think its just i had to get used to the speedo.. though i still could not manage under 33.12, got rid of the new patch and straight away hitting 33.0's, which is wierd coz i usually adapt to things very quickly, even if they are really different.. oh well :D

and yeah glen, im suprized at how damn long it took him to get it back:tilt:

steve30x

8th March 2007, 21:21

I have noticed the handling getting better for a while now. The cars seem to stick to the road better than it did 6 months ago.

AndroidXP

8th March 2007, 21:22

Maybe just your driving skills improved?

steve30x

8th March 2007, 21:24

That maybe so but I dont play LFS as often as I used to.

Breizh

8th March 2007, 21:29

Measurable facts, not anecdotes...

steve30x

8th March 2007, 21:35

Measurable facts, not anecdotes...

Are you sure your not looking for a thread where they post riddles?

Arsenic_Fox

8th March 2007, 21:54

i think what hes saying is that the cars dont seem to slide everywhere like they used to, and i feel it too...

^^ id like to have cars that stick to the road a little better, or maybe make it so that drifting in certain cars make it slower or somehting >.< i hate seeing people sliding all the time, it makes me want to... *stabs door*

Ball Bearing Turbo

8th March 2007, 23:42

People, people..

If anything changed (which it did NOT), your replays would go out of sync, and people would be JOOSing (going out of sync online) all the time.

Drifting is already slower than a proper line.

Boris Lozac

8th March 2007, 23:46

^^ id like to have cars that stick to the road a little better

They do stick to the road very well.
Maybe try looking at your speedometer and see what speeds are you doing. Now, imagine doing those speeds in real life.
Or, you could try and take a car and stick to the speed limit that is in your neighboorhood, or in the public roads, and use gentle steering inputs like you do in a real car, and tell me if you have any sliding or something..

keiran

8th March 2007, 23:53

I can bet it's the new sounds, you don't realise how much information they give until they are changed.

You really think Scawen would change the physics without documenting it? Not to mention how online play would be all to pot and replays out of synch.

Urban_Eagle1

9th March 2007, 07:20

I can say the same in patch U to 30 but now its at V so it doesnt seem as much as a big deal, but when i upgraded to patch 30 and raced against my friend who had U, he was faster by a bit but he was still faster. Although it was down to just the speedo it seemed like it was diffrent.

S14 DRIFT

11th March 2007, 02:54

i notice no differnce, perhaps because i dont look for them :O

KeiichiRX7

11th March 2007, 10:58

ok, lets settle this once and for all.

F1perfview can be used to do a comparison of the laps.

do a drag run, a skid pad run, and a lap around aston north in each version.

compare

receive answer in concrete numbers.

feel gratified in knowing the answer like a rat that just got kibble for pushing a button

Ball Bearing Turbo

11th March 2007, 17:42

Holy cow guys.

Once and for all:

It CANNOT be different, otherwise it would not work to race with other versions. Period. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's NOT different. Stop wasting space on the forum poasting about it, and in your head thinking about it.

Not to mention that Scawen would've mentioned changes to the tire physics :shrug:

Shape up!