3 screens and Triple Head 2 Go, oh and a race cockpit, ECCI Pedals & wheel and more..

[caliviper]

Hi Guys,

I have been saving my pennies for a looooong time and I purchased the ultimate set up. I've got a brand new fast PC (Intel Core Duo 2 6700), the Nvidea GeForce 7950 GX2 graphics card, 3 projectors and the Triple Head 2 Go to handle all 3 projectors. I've also got a racing cockpit (GT Racer from HotSeat) and the ECCI 3 pedal set up and wheel and a shifter.

Yeah, it's a bit overboard, but I'm practicing online and virtually to better my race craft when I go to REAL-WORLD race tracks in my race car. I set a track record in my class at Laguna Seca my first time there and a lot of it had to do with me practicing racing on that track on an Xbox and just knowing all the turns so well from playing that track so much. Now I have taken it WAAAY further by purchasing all high end gear. While LFS doesnt have real tracks, it will help hone my car control skills, or at least that is what I hope. To get some really cheap seat time, so to speak.


Ok, so my question is this. I haven't yet purchased LFS. In fact, I haven't even dloaded it yet (doing that tomorrow.) I have been playing rFactor for the past 2 weeks and have had a blast with all the customization that is possible and all the various cars and real tracks that I will eventually be racing on. A friend of mine told me to check out LFS and that he felt the physics were a bit more realistic than those in rFactor, so here I am, about to download the demo. I would straight up purchase it tomorrow except that I want to know first whether the game supports 3 screen setups correctly. What I mean by this is, can the game output 3 separate views, one for each projector, or must I use a huge FOV and stretch the view out? I don't like stretching out the FOV because it ends up 'stretching' the outside edges, so cars that go by you are stretched out and then unstetch back to their normal aspect ratio as they move more towards the center screen. Having 3 separate views would be much better for me as I could angle the 3 projector screens in around me for that totally immersive feel.

I'll post pics and videos of it all if this all works out. I hope to hear from those of you who have already gone through these steps.

BTW, the native resolution for my projectors is 1280X720, or it goes down to 1024X768. I'm running 3072X768 on rFactor because there's some kind of conflict when running it at 3840X720 that might actually be an issue with my graphics card. So I'll probably run 3072X768.


Thanks guys, and I look forward to racing with you guys online, and who knows, maybe meet you at a real track here in California one of these days

Cheers!

[George Kuyumji]

You are planning to connect three Beamers on triplehead2go? :nana:

caliviper, if you get that working you might have one of the best Racing Sim Rigs in the World.

I never heard someone using 3 Beamers on triplehead2go but in theory it should work fine.

Here are the Resolutions triplehead2go can put on 3 pictures:

1920 x 480 jeweils: (triple 640) 60Hz
2400 x 600 jeweils: (triple 800) 60Hz
3072 x 768 jeweils: (triple 1024) 75Hz
3840 x 1024 jeweils: (triple 1280) 60Hz

It seems you will be able to Race on 1024 x 768 resolution on those Beamers. By the way you didnt mention what Beamers they are.

I have once set in a Motion Simulator which had a huge Picture covering the side views too. Look at the Picture I attached. The experience was mindblowing.

You might want to investigate the possibility to have a shaped Beamer screen, so that you actually surround yourself with the view. I dont know if there is a company manufacturing such screens, but it is definitely better than having 3 seperate straight screens, it doesnt put you in that mindblowing experience and immersion you do have with shaped screens.

You are about for a Ride of what is the best Sim Racing Rig one can build. :nod:


http://www.stumbles1.homelinux.com/berichte/mix/Flugsim3D.jpg

http://a340project.us/gallery/Fgallery9-8.jpg

Cant wait to see some pictures

[AndroidXP]

I don't have a multi monitor setup (or even widescreen), but LFS definitely does NOT support three separate view outputs. It does however natively support any resolution the hardware drivers report, so the setup itself will work.

Why don't you just try with the demo? I think that's the easiest way to find out if you like it or not ;)

[George Kuyumji]

Android did you see this? One Graphiccard and the triplehead2go Adapter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzyiMlilsHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9POFJo6E1I

[Kegetys]

Android did you see this? One Graphiccard and the triplehead2go Adapter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzyiMlilsHc]

That's with two videocards and SoftTH

[alland44]

Yes it does.
I have seen pictures from one of the developers, and he`s using three screens, in his setup.
But you need some extra hard and software, I guess !?

EDIT :
But I dont know if he stretches the images !?

[George Kuyumji]

Perhaps, but Live for Speed is also listed in the compatible Game list from Matrox's Triplehead2go

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/products/th2go/gaming/list.php

[AndroidXP]

Android did you see this? One Graphiccard and the triplehead2go AdapterDid you read the topic post? He wanted to know if LFS supports three separate view outputs (which it doesn't), so the corners of the output are not FOV-stretched. In the video you can clearly see how the edges are indeed stretched, and that was my whole point. ;)

[caliviper]

Did you read the topic post? He wanted to know if LFS supports three separate view outputs (which it doesn't), so the corners of the output are not FOV-stretched. In the video you can clearly see how the edges are indeed stretched, and that was my whole point. ;)


Correct. And to add to this, does anybody with technical know-how know what outputting 3 separate 1024X768 views vs one 3072x768 view would do to the performance of the CPU/GPU? With my setup, I ran run rFactor with 20 AI cars and all settings completely maxed to the limits at 3072X768 with no problems (still getting 30 to 50 FPS.)

SInce the TH2G takes the PC output (3072X768) and splits that signal into 3 separate signals (left, center and right), the game itself would need to render the 3 separate view, stick them together as one 3072X768 image and output that and let the TH2G do the rest. rFactor supposedly has it, but it's not working for me. Is this a difficult patch or upgrade to be made to LFS? As time goes on, more and more triple screen setups will become commonplace.

[SparkyDave]

IIRC LFS has a special pharillea mode when it detects a pharillea card (sp) but I am not sure about the TH2G setup

A quick search should do the trick :)

SD.

[caliviper]

IIRC LFS has a special pharillea mode when it detects a pharillea card (sp) but I am not sure about the TH2G setup

A quick search should do the trick :)

SD.

I read a post yesterday that said something like the game can detect a 16:3 ratio or something like that and know based on that that the game is a triple screen, but it would just put all the HUD's and things like that on the center screen. I dont think it changed the way the FOV is rendered.

[latch]

http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6092

[caliviper]

http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6092


Watch the rFactor video at the link above. At about 1 min 5 secs or so, you'll see that the right mirror stretches quite a bit as it approaches the far edge of the screen. This is what I am trying to avoid. It doesnt look so bad on tiny monitors when nothing is around, but when you're in a pack of cars that are all stretched out and the images are much larger (like my projectors), then it looks terrible.

[lowgoods]

You may read this thread, which I posted here some time ago:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8509&highlight=field+report

Bottom line is, that to my opinion LFS has the best support for triple monitor setups from all games I tried.

However, as said before, you can definitely not render three different views and stick them together into one wide-screen frame buffer with the current version. I wonder if this would be possible on current graphics hardware anyway, as it would require frame buffer formats with a pitch width three times the image width. Alternatively it would require a huge BitBlit operation once per frame to reformat the three small buffers into a wide-screen one, which would need a lot of additional memory bandwidth. So even if it was supported by some hard- and software, I would expect a significant performance drop, also on high-end systems... but all this is only my guess.

[caliviper]

You may read this thread, which I posted here some time ago:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8509&highlight=field+report

Bottom line is, that to my opinion LFS has the best support for triple monitor setups from all games I tried.

However, as said before, you can definitely not render three different views and stick them together into one wide-screen frame buffer with the current version. I wonder if this would be possible on current graphics hardware anyway, as it would require frame buffer formats with a pitch width three times the image width. Alternatively it would require a huge BitBlit operation once per frame to reformat the three small buffers into a wide-screen one, which would need a lot of additional memory bandwidth. So even if it was supported by some hard- and software, I would expect a significant performance drop, also on high-end systems... but all this is only my guess.

Thanks Lowgoods. I noticed that on LFS, the image was less stretched than on rFacto due to what looks like less default FOV. On rFactor, with the default settings, I can see out both side windows. With LFS, I cannot (at least not with the demo cars I tested.) This smaller FOV required less stretching and looked better with LFS. without good side view on one side though, it almost defeats the purpose of this type of setup, unless you have a Track IR 4 or or something similar.

The ISI team will be adding independent screen rendering on the next release I am told, so I am anxious to give that a try. Since I have 3 projector screens, my goal is to angle the side screens in towards me to simulate the side of the car views, so having 3 independently rendered screens is important. I'll let you know what kind of performance hit I take.

From what you are saying, is the hit for rendering 3 screens going to come from the CPU, GPU, or ram? I've got a 6700 Duo Core 2 with 2 gigs ram and the new nVidia GeForce 7950 GX2 graphics card. I'm pulling about 175 FPS on LFS in the demo mode when no other cars are on track. I didn't pay attention to when I was racing.

[lowgoods]

yeah, would be very interesting to hear if this works at usable frame rates with rFactor. i think there is a good chance then, that LFS will support it as well in some future release, it has always been leading-edge with features like that...

By the way, if you have so much money left for toys like this, why didn't you go for that motion simulator from Force Dynamics? Ok, it would be a challenge to assemble three projectors with screens on it, but you would have the most sexy LFS setup on the world for sure then... :D

[caliviper]

yeah, would be very interesting to hear if this works at usable frame rates with rFactor. i think there is a good chance then, that LFS will support it as well in some future release, it has always been leading-edge with features like that...

By the way, if you have so much money left for toys like this, why didn't you go for that motion simulator from Force Dynamics? Ok, it would be a challenge to assemble three projectors with screens on it, but you would have the most sexy LFS setup on the world for sure then... :D

My set up costs about 1/5th of what it costs to buy a Force Dynamics 301. That's why I dont have one of those!

I heard from another company that they will be releasing something that an compete with the FD 301 but at a MUCH lower price point that is geared for home use. They felt it would be as good or better than the 301 and the Frex unit isn't even in the same league so that wasnt mentioned. 2007 I think was the release date. Keeping fingers crossed. If I could pick up something that is as good or better than a 301 and I can fit it inside of a room in my house, and the cost is well south of $5K, then I would conider one. Until then, I guess I will have to do without G force simulations.

BTW, one of the best things I ever bought for my system was the iVibe Tactile Feedback system. It brings these racing sims alive. Running over a rumble strip and feeling the strip through your body as you run over it is amazing. This is not the same thing as those cheapo butt kickers or bass shakers. The iVibe is custom programmed per game for each sensation (i.e., driving on gravel feels different than grass than concrete than stones, etc.)

In 10 years, with technology moving the way it is now, I'll be able to sell off my real race car and just do online sim'ing and it will feel like the real thing. 10 years is a long time. 10 years ago, the flagship PC was a 133 MHz system with 32MB ram and a meager 2GB Hard Drive. That was pushing the envelope. Notable cutting edge games for the year were Quake, Command & Conquer, and Diablo. Wow, to think that was just 10 years ago. Many of you were probably still picking your noses on the playground. ;-)

[Hyperactive]

BTW, one of the best things I ever bought for my system was the iVibe Tactile Feedback system. It brings these racing sims alive. Running over a rumble strip and feeling the strip through your body as you run over it is amazing. This is not the same thing as those cheapo butt kickers or bass shakers. The iVibe is custom programmed per game for each sensation (i.e., driving on gravel feels different than grass than concrete than stones, etc.)

So you would say that the iVibe is a good purchase? I mean, many people seem to love it and the ones who haven't tried just refuse to believe that some pillow you put under you *ss can improve the experience so much? Is it really worth the 200$ what they ask for it? Atm, it doesn't work with LFS?

[caliviper]

So you would say that the iVibe is a good purchase? I mean, many people seem to love it and the ones who haven't tried just refuse to believe that some pillow you put under you *ss can improve the experience so much? Is it really worth the 200$ what they ask for it? Atm, it doesn't work with LFS?

It works way better than I thought it would work. The software that comes with it is pretty advanced and allows you to tweak every aspect of the games it supports. I have not tried it with LFS since I just downloaded the demo yesterday, but in rFactor, it is amazing. As you accelerate, the road vibrations become more intense and faster. As you enter a high sped turn, the g forces would cause you to lean, so you feel a little more of the vibration on one side of your legs. As you accelerate, you feel more vibrations in your back as you would in real life as you are thrown back in your chair. But the best part of all is the way it reacts to different surfaces. Running over rumble strips is amazing. The way you can feel the road as you drive on it and the feel of the surfaces changing from the track to concrete to cobblestone roads, etc. It's really, really worth every penny. It's not just a cushion. It comes with hardware and some good software to tune it the way you want. And for those games that are not supported nateively, you can just turn it on and use it like any ordinary butt kicker unit, only you will feel this one 10X more than you do with the bass units, and you dont shake anything in the room other than you, your chair and chassis. It's cool because at 200 lbs, when sitting on the cushion, it transfers a lot of the vibration into my racing chassis which vibrates the steering wheel, so i can feel the road with my ECCI wheel even though it doesnt have force feedback.

[lowgoods]

I can hardly belive that this vibrator thing can give you the same quality of feedback, that a modern FFB wheel like the G25 can do. Haven't seen or even tried one in real though, but it really sounds very very strange to put some of those under your **s lol

[Davo]

It'd be awesome setting it up to work with the suspension in LFS. You get a good ol kick up the ass when you hit the curb on SO. :) That'l teach ya.

[caliviper]

Let me expand on this. I own the G25 set up. The only part of it I use anymore is the shifter because I have since purchased a set of ECCI pedals and their wheel. The wheel lacks force feedback, but it feels much more realistic than the G25 wheel (im comparing it to a wheel in a real car.) While I do miss some of the FF from the G25 wheel, it's not enough to go back to it because it feels 'sloppy.' The centering feels motorized (it is), there is asmall amount of slack in the center, etc. I havent used my G25 in a few weeks, so I may hook it back up just to give it another go and see what happens. The one thing I miss about it the the wheel going slack when the tire loses grip.

The iVibe unit gives enough impact that it makes you cringe when you know you are about to hit the wall head on because of the jolt it is going to give you. These things arnt lightly touching you -- you have your whole weight pressing down on them, and you feel it. I had to go in and turn the settings way down initially, as it was too over powering. No joke.

It vibrates enough to feel the vibrations in the steering wheel through my race chassis/cockpit, slight as they may be.

[George Kuyumji]

In my league those who got a iVibe Seat said they would never drive without it again.

I'm also planning to buy one. At the moment LFS only supports the iVibe seat threw Audio signals and not directly from the Game Engine. It still works but the effects are not that accurate then with NR2003, GTR2 or rFactor.

I also first thought that simulated vibrations for the legs, ass and the back would not be that good, but I know people in my league who already got one and they love it, some even only play those Sims now that simulate vibrations, so I'm going to get one this week.

[lowgoods]

Well, after all it's about personal preference. I feel that ECCI pedals with a G25 wheel is the best thing I can get at the moment and I'm happy with it. About this force feedback pillow... you finally managed to make me thinking of a new investment :scratchch

[caliviper]

Heh. That doesn't look like "pennies" with my tired eyes.

I've been savimg about 1,000 pennies each day now for the last 2 years :-) :thumb:

[caliviper]

In my league those who got a iVibe Seat said they would never drive without it again.

I'm also planning to buy one. At the moment LFS only supports the iVibe seat threw Audio signals and not directly from the Game Engine. It still works but the effects are not that accurate then with NR2003, GTR2 or rFactor.

I also first thought that simulated vibrations for the legs, ass and the back would not be that good, but I know people in my league who already got one and they love it, some even only play those Sims now that simulate vibrations, so I'm going to get one this week.

I would agree. The difference in game play is a ton. Being able to feel the car behind you giving you nudges is amazing. I hope the LFS developers add native support for the iVibe system like rFactor did. I just cant get serious about LFS without it now that i have used it on rFactor. If LFS was the only thing out there, then it would be a different story.

I dont know how else to put it. PLaying without the iVibe to me now feels like playing the game without being able to hear your engine. You could do it since you have all the other sounds and inputs, but it would feel strange and you couldnt push yourself to the limits. I guess you just cant understand the impact until you use one. I know I couldnt. I just ordered the Track IR4 and I have a feeling I will feel similarly about that.

M

[horrgakx]

The ECCI set is amazing but hellishly expensive. Also exclusively sold from the US only and shipped abroad, I asked them.

The stretching effect mentioned at the edges of the screen, this will be a problem with the graphics I'd guess you may not resolve, think of your view from the lens on a camera trying to get a perfect picture 90deg to either side of you - you just can't do it.

[Blaeza]

I'd get an iVibe just for the Missus. She'd never stop playing LFS then...:nod: