Widescreen for LFS & et al (Samsung SyncMaster 225BW)

[Krane]

My 10 years old 20" Sun monitor has been in terminal care for a while now... So I've started to look for a new monitor, specifically Samsung SyncMaster 225BW (http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Digital/LS22DPWCBQXAA.asp?page=Specifications).

Googling about it I found out it has only TN (Twisted Nematic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#TN.2BFilm)) type of display, the image quality isn't that good apparently - Is it really so?

Besides that, from what I've read, there's the thing that old games don't like widescreen monitors -- image looks stretched.

I do play games quite alot, so the above issue is quite big for me*.


So fellow LFSers how does the 225BW and widescreen monitors in general work in the genre of games we play?





* Mostly interested in LFS (AFAIK is ok with WS), RBR, GPL, WarRock (has WS support but only for 1280x768 not the 225BW's native 1680x1050)

[GP4Flo]

LFS isn't an old game and it supports every screen res it can find. :smileypul

I don't know about the other games though.

[tpa]

Can't really help you, just wanna say that I'd love some info on that, too because I am thinking about getting the Samsung 205BW :scratchch

[Tweaker]

Hmmm. I've been hunting for a nice new flat screen for a while now, and there is not very many that have a good response time of at least 8ms or lower PLUS a resolution height of 1200 pixels or better. There are some expensive models that go higher than that, but I am not willing to pay much.

The resolution is the most important to me at least, and I NEED to have a screen that has 1200 pixels of height or better. Because with a screen of that size, x1054 is very weak, even for the widescreen ratio.

Still, I do like all the Samsungs I have seen, and was thinking of getting one. But then again, there is the Dell 24' widescreen that is absolutely flawless and has HUGE resolution (1920 x 1200). Costs a bit more, but I am saving for that, and price will go down by the time I need something new. Friends of mine bought it, and it is an amazing screen.

[the_angry_angel]

I've gotta say, we're using a fair amount of Samsung 920N (amongst other models) TFT's at work; both using them ourselves and reselling to customers. For the price, you generally can't beat them on performance or build quality. We're yet to have any problems with any of them (I think we've put in at least within the region of 150+ across various different companies and from various suppliers in the last couple of months).

I can't give you any recommendations on the widescreen models specifically though :(

[lyd]

FWIW, I am using a Chimei 22” widescreen (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824252006) I got from newegg, and I am 100% pleased with it. 5ms, 1680x1050, $340 USD.

I wasn't really expecting much from it, but it was the best thing I could afford at the time. I was very pleasantly surprised. Very bright, vibrant (if not wholly accurate) color, have never experienced any ghosting or tearing, seems perfect for LFS. Not sure if I would recommend it for more general desktop use as it has some angle of view issues, and certainly not for photo or graphic design work as it is difficult to calibrate for correct gamma while maintaining the brightness*, but for a dedicated sim box (which is what I bought it for) where you are always looking at it straight on and the factory 6400k setting is close enough it absolutely wonderful.

lyd

*Actually, I did spend some time calibrating it, and got it very close to the desired temp and gamma with perfectly satisfactory contrast and brightness in the windows desktop environment and a couple of image apps I looked at, but lfs itself was way too dark with those settings. Since I use thing thing pretty much exclusively for LFS, I reverted back to the factory settings.

[tpa]

Ok, I got a 9th grade math problem that I need to solve before upgrading :razz:

I am coming from a 19" TFT with an aspect ratio of 5:4 and I want to upgrade to an 20" with 16:10. Now I am worried, that the 20"'s display might actually be less tall, because of the widescreen.

Pythagorean theorem:

a² + b² = c²

With an aspect ratio of 5:4 'b' is 1/4 larger than 'a' so:

a² + (1,25a)² = 19"²

From this point on I am just too stupid...

a² + (1,25a)² = 19"²

a² + 1,5625a² = 19"²

2,5625a² = 19"² | : 2,5625 and square root

a = 7,4146 ... but that can't be right


:( H E L P :(

[Niels Heusinkveld]

:)

16:10, makes an angle of 32.00538 degrees
5:4 makes an angle of 38.65981 degrees

if you go 20'' at a 32 degrees angle you have covered a 'hight' of 10.59 inches (diagonal is 20'', angle is 32 degs, then 20 times the sin of 32 gets you the hight)

20'' 16:10, vertical is 10.59
19" 5:4, vertical is 11.7

I don't know why you'd like to know that though :) I would look at the pixels and (1680x1050)/(1280x1024) = 1.46! 46% more pixels and 'space' to work! And wide is nice for movies and most new games run fine wide screen.

Oh btw, don't fully trust the rated monitor speed.. 8ms 12ms.. they don't say much. Plus some people have raced on my 30ms rated screen without any issues. One guy said it wasn't visibly worse than his friend's 12ms one.

[Frietpan]

i have a 19" packard bell Maestro widescreen tft (max reso 1440x900)
dont have problems with gaming it's not stretched only wider.. and lfs has a widescreen function only horizontal tho

[Shotglass]

Ok, I got a 9th grade math problem that I need to solve before upgrading :razz:

I am coming from a 19" TFT with an aspect ratio of 5:4 and I want to upgrade to an 20" with 16:10. Now I am worried, that the 20"'s display might actually be less tall, because of the widescreen.

Pythagorean theorem:

a² + b² = c²

With an aspect ratio of 5:4 'b' is 1/4 larger than 'a' so:

a² + (1,25a)² = 19"²

From this point on I am just too stupid...

a² + (1,25a)² = 19"²

a² + 1,5625a² = 19"²

2,5625a² = 19"² | : 2,5625 and square root

a = 7,4146 ... but that can't be right


:( H E L P :(

19" 4:5 is about 30 cm talls a 20" 16:10 about 26
so 4 cm less
if you want the same height with more space on the sides youll have to go for a 24" (which is an awesome size for a monitor btw)

[srdsprinter]

yeah, but 24" pc monitors cost about 2x the 22", but do offer very nice 1920x1200 resolution. Very hard for most graphics cards to pump out nice fps with eye candy at that 1080p + resolution.

I believe widescreengamers or gaming or something has a great forum and huge list rating games on their ws ability or lack there of. The main one that jumps out is the battlefield series doesn't natively support ws.

Turns out, a lot of older games can be tricked into running native ws resolutions, usually a simple change of some lines in the .ini file. The widescreengamers forum will definatley help you out... Google it.

I've been running a 1280x768 17" dell lcd hdtv for my pc/tv/ps2 needs for the past 3 years of college, and its worked very well. The low vertical resolution 768, makes reading some websites involve lots of scrolling but hasn't been too bad.

I am getting a job in January, finally graduating in dec, and will be getting a 22" ws to go along side the trusty dell tv. I believe the ws resolution 1680x1050 filling those 22 inches will make reading a little easier, and won't require a pair of 8800gtx's to get decent fps in my games.

[Shotglass]

yeah, but 24" pc monitors cost about 2x the 22", but do offer very nice 1920x1200 resolution.

get an old sony fw900 then ... has a better picture quality than any lcd too

[tpa]

Well, thank you guys :thumb:

4cm less in height really isn't an option for me. I think I'll go for 22", then.

Now I have to decide which one :D Samsung 225BW or maybe Acer AL1622Wd... gotta do some research :scratchch

[Shotglass]

prad.de if you dont know the site already

[Eldanor]

A little off topic question.

What happens to old games and programs when you run them in a widescreen display? Do they get stretched?

[Niels Heusinkveld]

If you run them in a window and windows IS using the right resolution for the monitor, then it will be fine.

Running fullscreen it might not be. Some monitors have an 'aspect' button (mine has) which has a few modes:
1 fill with aspect (i.e. keeps aspect ratio and scales it as big as fits)
2 fullscreen (i.e. full screen: it will not remain aspect
3 native mode (i.e on a 1600x1200 screen, running a game in 800x600 will make it a small centered 1/4th of the area using window

However I haven't seen this button on many screens! Not on a cheapish Samsung 19'' widescreen anyway..

[Frietpan]

i think almost any lcd has pan&scan?
like said before adding a couple line to the exe of your game makes it widescreen compatible

[andy_bonjon]

Im using an Acer AL2216W plugged into me laptop, bought from overclockers for £260 although im not sure if they still sell it.

its a 22inch widescreen, 1680*1050, 5ms response and 700:1 contrast ratio

it wont look stretched provided you change the resolution to a widescreen option in lfs itself... it has meant i can use a slightly wider fov whilst still making sure it looks the same as it did on my laptop

It has made so much difference and i dont think i could go back to playing on a regular screen! :thumb:

[Krane]

I went and bought the 225BW. Yay! No need to plan my computer usage before hand and pray that it would work :D

No dead or stuck pixels :) , but some backlight bleed on bottomedge :(
Not so much if I lower brightness to near zero (image is not totally black then, it's like extra-brightness setting or something...)

I'm not exactly smiling ear to ear, the backlight bleed irks abit, but can't say I'm disappointed.


Boy do those web sites designed for 800x600 look wierd, there's same amount of empty space right of the screen as the content is wide :pillepall :D

i think almost any lcd has pan&scan?
like said before adding a couple line to the exe of your game makes it widescreen compatible
The 225BW atleast to my knowledge doesn't have such feature, but the Nvidia drivers with the new control panel interface do have such feature. Under Display, option called "Change flat panel scaling".

[vari]

I bought me a Viewsonic vx2235wm earlier. I wonder if it has the same panel as your Samsung and Andy's Acer since they all have same specs. How much did it cost btw? (got mine for 416€) :)

[Krane]

433€ from Mikromafia. That was one of the models I was looking for besides this, but this was about the only one that has HDCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP) support.

I only remember that the panel wasn't Samsung's own, but from some asian manufacturer that makes alot of panels for others.

Found it:
CMO M220Z1-L01 - http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/product/showproductd.jsp?size=22
Also used by your Viewsonic and quite alot of others too - http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=6813400

[tpa]

I ordered the 225BW as well, but I won't be able to test it until december 24th :razz:

[00Ja_mprinda]

I consider to buy new wide LCD too. Could anybody give me a screen how the LFS looks in widescreen?
Thanks.

[MillerM]

Here is your screenshot mate.

(I'm using an old CRT, Sony W900. Being powerd by a Radeon 9800Pro. Still getting some nice FPS (V-Sync) at 1600x1000 with 4x AA. Super smooth!)

(No AF as that seems to remove some detail.)

[lyd]

Boy do those web sites designed for 800x600 look wierd, there's same amount of empty space right of the screen as the content is wide :pillepall :D

I have never understood this. Who uses their web browser maximized? Well, clearly a lot of people do, because I see comments like this frequently, but as I said I don't understand it. Seems like a big waste of perfectly good screen real estate to me, especially on a wide-aspect display.

lyd

[Frietpan]

im running 1440x900 and using full browser window while browsing... just used to it

[hagenisse]

I've been using a Dell 2405 for over a year now and have only good things to say about that. Games that have native widescreen support (like LFS) looks great. Games that don't can often be hacked to look good aswell. If not it also supports 1:1, giving you black bars around.

My previous setup with a 3500+, 1gb and x800xl ran LFS at 1920x1200, 4xAA, and everything maxed out, steady at 60fps all the time. Using a lower res, like 1680x1050 also works, and ingame you don't notice any difference.

The 2405 is now replaced with the 2407, but the biggest difference is probably the design. When its on sale, its not expensive either, considering what you get. Great image quality, nice design, lots of adjustments (do NOT buy a monitor without height adjustment!) and lots of connections. Atm, I got two computers and one xbox 360 connected to it. :thumb:

After some time with a widescreen you start to wonder how on earth you could use a 4:3 (or even worse 5:4 19" lcd) before.. :)

[J.B.]

Running fullscreen it might not be. Some monitors have an 'aspect' button (mine has) which has a few modes:
1 fill with aspect (i.e. keeps aspect ratio and scales it as big as fits)
2 fullscreen (i.e. full screen: it will not remain aspect
3 native mode (i.e on a 1600x1200 screen, running a game in 800x600 will make it a small centered 1/4th of the area using window


*dusts off thread

I'm currently looking for a TFT and have been very surprised to find that most monitors don't support any of these settings, let alone by a single button press. In fact most screens stretch to full screen no matter what kind of input you give it! So which screen are you using?

[Davo]

If you get a TFT that uses DVI you can use your video card to adjust the ratio automatically so the monitor doesn't have to do it. I wouldn't even bother with an analog screen really.

[Bean0]

I have a Sammy 226BW and ATI X800, using Omega drivers, 'Scale Image to Panle Size' unticked.

These appear proper size with black borders...

1440x900
1360x1024
1360x850
1360x768
1280x800
1280x768
1280x720
1024x640

These get stretched to fullscreen...

1400x1050
1360x1020
1280x1024
1280x960
1200x900
1152x864
1024x768
960x720
800x600

[J.B.]

If you get a TFT that uses DVI you can use your video card to adjust the ratio automatically so the monitor doesn't have to do it. I wouldn't even bother with an analog screen really.

But what about connecting a Blu-Ray player or a PS3 or a HDTV decoder box? For me it's the monitors job to deal with the AR not the GPU's.

[thisnameistaken]

I have a Sammy 226BW and ATI X800,

How do you like that monitor? I'm thinking of buying one tomorrow.

Also: I was going to get a fancy desk mount for it so I can turn it to portrait mode - do you happen to know if all current video cards support this or are there models to avoid?

[Bean0]

How do you like that monitor? I'm thinking of buying one tomorrow.

Also: I was going to get a fancy desk mount for it so I can turn it to portrait mode - do you happen to know if all current video cards support this or are there models to avoid?

Love the monitor, it's my first LCD and I really can't fault it.

Just looked in my options and rotate 90 degrees is there, my card is pretty old, and I'm sure I saw the same options when I was using an even older 9600Pro.

Some nVidia ppl seem to have problems getting the native res, seems like it only shows up in some of the driver versions but easily solved by creating a custom res as far as I have read.

http://suprfile.com/src/1/6fmhxgj/DSC00029.jpg

Plenty reading here (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17689111) if you can be arsed :)

[hotmail]

i am using my lcd tv for lfs
okey it is samsung and have a normal pc input.
that is the type ;
http://pan.fotovista.com/dev/4/0/00000104/l_00000104.jpg

i am using 1280*768 75herts and it works fine

reintjan

[thisnameistaken]

Cool. Now I just have to find somewhere that has any in stock, or can delivery earlier than 14 days...

[Bean0]

Cool. Now I just have to find somewhere that has any in stock, or can delivery earlier than 14 days...

OcUK are getting stock on the 4th apparently, may well be cheaper elsewhere though.

[thisnameistaken]

OcUK are getting stock on the 4th apparently, may well be cheaper elsewhere though.

They don't offer a dead pixel check by any chance, do they? :scratchch

I am chock full o' questions today!

[Davo]

But what about connecting a Blu-Ray player or a PS3 or a HDTV decoder box? For me it's the monitors job to deal with the AR not the GPU's.

ALl those have built in AR adjustment so the monitor doesn't need to do it. Hell I don't even use the AR adjustment on my tv because all the other boxes have automatic AR adjustment and provide a fully digital signal.

[J.B.]

ALl those have built in AR adjustment so the monitor doesn't need to do it. Hell I don't even use the AR adjustment on my tv because all the other boxes have automatic AR adjustment and provide a fully digital signal.

Can you explain this in detail? Say my screen has 1680x1050 pixels (16:10) and I connect a HDTV decoder box that outputs a 1920x1080 (16:9) signal. Now the screen with no aspect ratio options will take the 1920x1080 signal and resize it to 1680x1050 thus distorting the AR.

What the HDTV box needs to do to prevent this is add extra black pixels to the top and bottom of the image for which it also needs to know the AR of my screen.

Is this what these kind of devices typically do?

[Bean0]

They don't offer a dead pixel check by any chance, do they? :scratchch

I am chock full o' questions today!

They don't, but the distance selling regs give you a 7 day cooling off period should you choose to send it back and hopefully get a better one later.

[Davo]

Can you explain this in detail? Say my screen has 1680x1050 pixels (16:10) and I connect a HDTV decoder box that outputs a 1920x1080 (16:9) signal. Now the screen with no aspect ratio options will take the 1920x1080 signal and resize it to 1680x1050 thus distorting the AR.

What the HDTV box needs to do to prevent this is add extra black pixels to the top and bottom of the image for which it also needs to know the AR of my screen.

Is this what these kind of devices typically do?

That's a good question and one I can't answer as I've never tried that. I only use my monitor for my pc but I'd say that hooking up to something would probably stretch it since the AR of monitors and tvs is different. Maybe if the set top box is smart it'll detect a plug n play monitor and scale accordingly. I know that I don't have switch the AR from 16:9 to 4:3 on my tv, it's done automaticaly and my graphics card adds black bars to the top and bottom and to the sides if necessary when watching movies or tv shows.

[Krane]

LFS works in Widescreen (1680x1050x32) mode perfectly

Wolfenstein 3D: Enemy Territory has pretty awful flickering in widescreen resolutions in some maps. They go away when I switch to 1024x768 or 1280x1024.

Sometimes while browsing the Interwebs, the screen goes black just like it would go to in "the blank screensaver" for a second or two. (I haven't reinstalled Windows in 18 Months. But still., I'm not a computer-dimwit, that's the only prob in my computer ATM. I just haven't found the cause of it yet...) Somehow I think it's related to Macromedia Flash.

I've also brielfly used the Samsung 226BW, it's pretty much the same as 225BW except it has screen tilt feature and the screen bevels are bit more "Vista-looking" (i.e., flashy and shiny). Other than that, it seems to be the same as the 225BW. Frankly speaking, if you have the cash... get the 226BW

[TurboRacer35]

LFS looks great on Acer X191W 1440x900...

[Krane]

Update..

So I have been having issues lately with my 225BW, sometime after booting the pc it often started to make sort of buzz/humming noise. First I thought it was a fan with worn bearings. Because I soon found out I could make the humm go away momentarily by pressing the frame near the menu button.

Tonight had enough when the pressing trick didn't work nor manhandling the monitor.

Well Google helped in one search (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38572&highlight=&sid=5e9972417e365147878559f704ad75f0)...

Increase the brightness and the humming is gone :really:


Anyway, I was dumbfounded by the fix and thought to share thinking this isn't some common knowledge.... :scratchch