Why does LFS attract a younger following?

[durbster]

It seems a little odd because the hardcore sim crowd has always been a pretty mature bunch in the past (I'm thinking Geoff Crammond, and then later Papyrus fans). Somehow, LFS seemed to capture a much younger audience pretty much from day one, but how?

The physics side of things does have a very accessible feel to it, especially with full support for keyboard and mouse users, but deep down it is incredibly complex which often puts people off. Also, the relative ease at which you could pull off some spectacular powerslides does have a certain appeal, so maybe that contributes... :D

I always felt the presentation was closer to an arcade racer than a full on sim (which is not a bad thing), but is that enough to really get a whole new generation hooked?

Or is it all a bit of a myth, and you're all actually old GPLers...? ;)

[jmkz]

massive, easy, online racing would be the selling point :)

[KiDCoDEa]

I always felt the presentation was closer to an arcade racer than a full on sim

if u think values all over, options with tech jargon all over, vector based ui, realtime ui, debug modes, analysis forces view etc, constitutes what u call an arcade presentation, i cant share that view.
its a deep deep sim thats already polished enough in certain areas to be user friendly. like click and online you are.
oh and it behaves like cars we all can have, so we can relate easier to them.
but arcade look? where?
its the worse arcade game ever.

[durbster]

It's the unecessarily flashy stuff, such as music playing in the background, big colourful buttons, the spinning cars that you can drop etc. Although some of thse things are there for very good reason (especially the car in the setup screen), to a new user they just look cool. :)

It's a simple inteface that belies it's depth and that's a huge compliment because it takes a lot of skill to achieve that.

That's not the answer though, because simplicity appeals to everyone; young or old.

[DasKlee]

it'S featured in online leagues, played in multigaming clans, shown on tv shows like GIGA TV on NBC so it's much better known among young online-gaming oriented players than among sim enthusiasts..

i stumbled upon it by looking for the GTR game on google and landing in a track IR review, where both games are mentioned. that'S why i first tried it shortly before the release of the first alpha demo

the online playability of the demo let's tons of younger players from other online games get into it. some stay demo only and continue playing CS, WoW, BF, COD and so on, others try S1/S2 and join the community here

[AndroidXP]

Maybe it's just because we have "normal" cars in LFS (which are easily drift and drivable)?
Maybe it's just them being the loudest and most immature, so we think they are getting more and more, while in reality they just get louder and louder?

[Nevermore]

What makes you think most people are in the younger generation group? I myself am in my 30's and most people I know in LFS know are around my age.

I think you need some precise numbers before we can discuss this.

[Barroso]

take out the "swingman" arcade view, that should keep the less mature from playing imo.

[AndyC]

I know what you mean by the arcade look, I think. Do you mean the HUD during gameplay, like the lap counter, best lap and the split time in the middle of the screen ? If you do then i would agree on that because it does look a little arcady even though it does come in very useful at times. Maybe things will chnage a little in S3 as you may have a pit crew you can communicate with telling you your position and lap etc. And in some cars you maybe able to bring up split times on the dash etc.

But I still think it is a nice look and i wouldn't be bothered if it never changed much.

Andy.

[durbster]

but arcade look? where?
Just to illustrate, in terms of interaction, the LFS setup screen could look something like this:
http://post-logic.com/softi/links/Library_xsi/Tutorials/Tut_XSI/CH_Setup/Pictures/25b.gif

It would be just as simple, just as effective from a users point of view, but it would make a huge difference in how it's percieved as a product.

And also, as AndyC points out, the information on screen while you're driving is exactly what you'd see in an arcade game.

[DasKlee]

What makes you think most people are in the younger generation group? I myself am in my 30's and most people I know in LFS know are around my age.

I think you need some precise numbers before we can discuss this.

well compared to the average GPL driver, i bet the age structure here is much younger - especially on the demo servers

i don't see a problem with a young community, because every guy that decides to play LfS instead of NFSU is one step closer to become a real sim-racer and if you give them time and trat them friendly, a lot of them will start to understand, what this is about and some will turn into good drivers

[Hallen]

Just to illustrate, in terms of interaction, the LFS setup screen could look something like this:
http://post-logic.com/softi/links/Library_xsi/Tutorials/Tut_XSI/CH_Setup/Pictures/25b.gif

It would be just as simple, just as effective from a users point of view, but it would make a huge difference in how it's percieved as a product.

And also, as AndyC points out, the information on screen while you're driving is exactly what you'd see in an arcade game.

A complex, unintuitive interface is just indicative of poor design or lack of attention by the developers. It does not make the program more of a sim.

I think there are a lot of kids using LFS. But the demographics of who plays computer games (or sims) is strongly skewed towards younger people so it is only natural to have a higher percentage of younger people. Show me a sim that only old people play... and I will show you an old sim. And btw, I am one of the older guys.

[Theafro]

The popularity with the younger generations is, I'm sure, down to the simple fact the they can play and play and play the FREE demo. once thay've played that to death they'll be hooked (mwahahaha:))

alternatively - if an adult gamer is casually surfing about they are (IMHO) less likely to click "download demo" than a 14-yo looking for something cool and free to do.

[durbster]

A complex, unintuitive interface is just indicative of poor design or lack of attention by the developers. It does not make the program more of a sim.
You've missed my point there though, I wasn't suggesting a difference in the functionality of the interface, just purely how it looks. You could have exactly the same menus, layout, buttons, sliders etc., but presented in a sort of Microsoft Visual Basic style the whole product would feel completely different.

...the demographics of who plays computer games (or sims) is strongly skewed towards younger people
It's a widely held view but I'm not sure it's true. I've never seen stats to back it up. If you look at the readership of PC gaming mags for example, the average age is mid-late 20s, and you get just as many adults with PS2s as kids, possibly moreso since they're the generation that have grown up with computer games.

[SlimLine]

You've missed my point there though, I wasn't suggesting a difference in the functionality of the interface, just purely how it looks. You could have exactly the same menus, layout, buttons, sliders etc., but presented in a sort of Microsoft Visual Basic style the whole product would feel completely different.





Im with Hallen on this one i think. I believe a vibrant, appealing interface is much more enjoyable to use than a lack-luster standard one. I feel if it looks boring it can feel boring.

[durbster]

Im with Hallen on this one i think. I believe a vibrant, appealing interface is much more enjoyable to use than a lack-luster standard one. I feel if it looks boring it can feel boring.
I agree too. I wasn't suggesting it should be a dull, VB interface, I was just making the comparison. :)

[Blackout]

I really dont understand this "LFS is arcare" discussion whats going on here now...I mean, what does the interface got do with is the something arcade or HC sim. And some purists *grohmnn" want only gray boxes to click, oh why? If options are easy to use and have colours its arcade, like NFSU arcade right? And if people would buy games desiding how large scale of colors are used in the game I think they choose the real arcade mentioned before ;)

And why LFS attracts young people? Hmmm.... the feeling and the game has just something special, it can amaze people of all ages, I remember myself when I tryed S1 demo the very first time, I just had to phone my brother to buy me a voucher...well, he is still not bying becouse the tires squeeking in low speeds :D

But I dont think it has anything to do with colors used...

[ORION]

There are many kids onlie because generally the players et younger. Just look at Counter-Strike, the avg age seems to be like 12 Years :)
And additionally, LFS was presented in the GIGA Games TV in Germany, which is mostly watched by kids either.

[Vykos69]

LFS attracts at first the "non-conservative" Simracer, cause it came from a total different point of view. Ask any GPL freak, Nascar fan or whatever, to race you in the GTi. He wont. ;)

The typical simmers want sims of fast racing cars, usually not available to buy for yourself. That's also the reason, why this genre has usually an older age, cause at the same time a Sim gets really really difficult, when simulating the actual high speed motorsport, and as a beginner you have to start with all the helps on, to get it going.
In LFS you start the GTi as n00b, and can manage a real simulated car on the track. From that point comes the confidence in being able to master a Sim.

To put it to one sentence: Why there are more LFS only guys, rocking in other Sims, than the other way round? Where are the team redliners, hackkmanns etc. that pwn (to stay with the 1337-speak ;) ) every Nascar/GPL race? Why is there a column about the chat behaviour on LFS-servers in A.S.S.? Cause LFS wakens them up, shakes up the sim-scene, opens it to new parts of the market, enters the "eSport-scene", going side by side with CS, WC3 etc. Actually LFS has afaik the most prizes in online simracing available atm.
And that's the main reasons new people come to it, that's maybe also the reason some of "us" are fanatics when it comes to advertising the "own" Sim. Because LFS goes new ways, compared to the old and conservative ones of the simracing scene since years.

[Linsen]

Ever thought about doing some public relations for LFS, Vykos?

;)

[DasKlee]

Ever thought about doing some public relations for LFS, Vykos?

;)

i bet he never ever thought about it ;)

[KiDCoDEa]

I agree too. I wasn't suggesting it should be a dull, VB interface, I was just making the comparison. :)

You made a comparison between lfs and a highend 3d app, softimage xsi.
I dont understand whats to debate in this thread.

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

I don't know exactly why young people like LFS, but there are some very talented young drivers here who are capable of doing WRs.

[Fonnybone]

... the spinning cars that you can drop etc. Although some of
thse things are there for very good reason (especially the car in the setup
screen), to a new user they just look cool. :)

Now that you mention it, the dropping car DID make me say "Kkhhhooooollll".
The driving got me interested and the online gaming got me hooked. The rest
could have been pretty much anything, i bet i'd still be here.

I'm not sure where we have any facts indicating the age of LFS users, but
i did notice a change in the general attitude of the community in the last
year or so. In all, it's a good thing, but some bad traits have also been
highlighted. I'm not sure any of this can be tied to age as much as maturity
which ISN'T as connected to age as some like to think. I know 30 years old
immature people just like i've met incredibly mature 8 year olds. Some of the
older folks are as much a trouble makers as some of the n00bs are, if not
more, just like real life . Heck, this IS real life, i'm no AI :p

[WorldFamous]

It has nothing to do with what Live For Speed is or isn't, but what the 'rival' sims are.

Let's take Grand Prix Legends for example, the vast majority of people who play it are those who grew up a lot closer to the 60's and have a stronger bond with the cars and tracks than is probably healthy. ;)

The same can be said of GTR, endurance racing for the most part doesn't appeal to the younger audience. Setting aside 3 hours (at least) to watch a motor race doesn't fit in with their plans like the way touring cars and Formula One do.

Excepting the LX cars, the other deciding factor is that Live For Speed doesn't really model old cars. It's all relatively modern which probably alienates some of the GPL purists who might otherwise enjoy the physics and online racing that LFS has to offer.

Above all though, Live For Speed manages to offer everything from Mini sprint racing to full grands prix, which is remarkable, really. So I guess the younger audience is downto maybe being more open to what's on offer and not being turned off by the fact it doesn't actually simulate a real series or track.

This long ramble was brought to you by the letter C.

[Bob Smith]

I don't think LFS attracts a particularly young audience. I would consider young to be under 18s. Not that being any older makes you old, but rather I feel like I'm talking to and racing with adults rather than kids. See how many over 18s play Rugrats Golf. It'll be minority.

Sure older cars in games like GPL will obviously attract a positively ancient audience :p, that's only to be expected. I would definately like to see some older cars in LFS though. And trucks. And bikes, three-wheelers, six wheelers, and.... the list is endless.

[Hallen]

You've missed my point there though, I wasn't suggesting a difference in the functionality of the interface, just purely how it looks. You could have exactly the same menus, layout, buttons, sliders etc., but presented in a sort of Microsoft Visual Basic style the whole product would feel completely different.


It's a widely held view but I'm not sure it's true. I've never seen stats to back it up. If you look at the readership of PC gaming mags for example, the average age is mid-late 20s, and you get just as many adults with PS2s as kids, possibly moreso since they're the generation that have grown up with computer games.

Sorry, I missed your point there. Standardized controls, albeit somewhat boring, do make for a more usable interface, and can look a bit more "professional". However, I think those things are hard to do when you are drawing with DirectX. By definition, that means that you have to create a draw everything yourself.

I'm sorry, but I am an old fart, mid-20's IS a kid to me. :D

[Hallen]

LFS attracts at first the "non-conservative" Simracer, cause it came from a total different point of view. Ask any GPL freak, Nascar fan or whatever, to race you in the GTi. He wont. ;)
Uh, gotta disagree there. I was a GPL... well not freak, but fan. I actually like NASCAR 2003. Both of those sims have more in common with LFS than there are real differences. It all comes down to good physics and good racing.

And that's the main reasons new people come to it, that's maybe also the reason some of "us" are fanatics when it comes to advertising the "own" Sim. Because LFS goes new ways, compared to the old and conservative ones of the simracing scene since years.
I think that is what keeps a lot of us here. I came in the first place because of the good physics modeling and the great online play. I stay because of the community and yes, because that feeling of connection with the developers that makes me (and all of us) part of the product. I really don't understand the "old and conservative" reference though. If by conservative, you mean established large companies that produce products for the largest possible demographics, then I could agree (but think that "conservative" is an odd way of describing that), and "old" is always relative :D

[Mr.Ferret]

Well im only 14 i first played S1 when i was like 12 (on a demo cd of a mgazine) AND I HATED IT!!! (lol i thought it was so stupid caus you couldnt take any of the corners properly) then a few years later somone said something on some forum about live for speed and that there was gonna be damage in the next version (S2) so im like ok cool. i started to play s1 (i had a wheel now that made it very enjoyable) then S2 came out and i havent had a social life that didnt involve cars for months :P

[Shotglass]

depends on how you define younger ... if you mean 18 year olds (the type that just got their drivers license) its obviously that "wow this thing feels exactly like my own car" feeling you instantly get when you first take the gti for a spin with the default setup

[Infiniti]

just turned 16 and got my drivers liscense but ive been driving s1 demo until s2alpha played demo for awhile then finally i got s2 liscense cause I probably am one of the more mature youngens :D and I wanted to race along side people that wanted to race clean, fast, and fun instead of wrecking and just screw'n around. I got a wheel for the demo I really liked it back in s1 and decided to play the demo until I couldnt play it no more and wanted more maps and cars. Diffently made a good switch :) I think young people get attracted by the eye candy. I found it after trying to find alternatives for gtr, didnt really like it that much and it was really expensive too. Wasnt even a sim racer at the time I was flight simmer and bf or cs player. I play cpu games as a small hobby dont play everyday and not for long either. But its fun when your looking for something to do, Im not a big tv fan so this is my tv slash ps2 :nana: Thats my 2 whopping cents

[Tweaker]

I don't think it is JUST LFS that attracts younger gamers (note "gamers" -- the majority of them are younger than 18 years old)... Almost every other game that is in the main market are under a popular category and no doubt attract the youngest of gamers. Matter of fact... I have noticed that PC gaming is becoming much more common for younger people. In the late 90's you didn't see a 12 year old playing an advanced simulation... and playing it well. The fact is, many younger players are around these days, on PC, console, whatever... It is much more accessible and possible for people of any age. And in LFS' case, this game can be played by even a 5 or 6 year old computer system, which is maybe one reason why you get a lot of mixed ages... not a lot of people can upgrade either, so LFS is their only hope.

I do see people playing other simulations, young ones too... but they lack the interest in games like those... it doesn't 'look pretty', it is 'too hard' for them, etc. LFS is still a hard game for any youngster I think, but I still think it appeals to them because it is fun, like any game should be. That... and they probably are in belief with how the car drives... something they cannot do in real-life probably until they are 16 or older.

I find that a game that has a lot of 'young appeal' is somewhat of an advantage... for the developers to make more money at least. How do you think EA makes so much? You don't see EA making an incredibly hard game. The age group of around 12 to 16 buy the most games! So expect to see it... and those age groups primarily are sucked into GOOD ONLINE GAMES, which is the most popular detail of any video game these days. Almost a requirement that a game has multiplayer these days.

That's all I gotta say ;)

On a side note about age, and youngsters becoming very smart & good at games these days... a recent example of this has been my younger cousin. He is 8 years old and plays Counterstrike really REALLY damn good... No pro, but he finishes his games with a 2:1 k/d ratio :really:

[TravisS]

Hmmm... "younger"

When I was a member of Memphis Bleek, I was one of the youngest. I believe that only Reed was younger then me.
I'm 23 now, was, I dunno... 21 or 22 then? Reed I think was 19.

But many others on the team were in their 30s, 40s, even 50s.

I can see the demo attracting younger players, especially now with damage, smoke, skid marks, etc...
Before all that there's wasn't much "just screwing around" type stuff to do. Not to say you couldn't, there was just less to do.
Damage I think will bring the yougest croud. Seriously, who doesn't want to smash stuff up? :D

But in the paid version I can only imagine the average age getting quite a bit older. At least old enough to the point where you are paying for LFS out of your own pocket.

[Jouni Trogen]

Coming from a Grand Turismo communtiy years back (GT2, GT3) there was lots of 40+ y old guys racing what we called online racing (just comparing times actualy) we did get together and race some iLink racing too. (6 PS2 conected together via cables) But even there in console racing we hade lots of guys over 30 y old too, but of course most was in the 18 - 30y. There was about 10 guys in the 50´s. Oldest being 59y.

with PC racing, I race weekly with Nascar, rFactor and LFS. we are a group of guys mostly in the 40´s and up with a few younger guys. 2 of us over 50y. we´ve raced Nascar trucks for a few years now, and currently waiting for rFactor Utes mod to continue racing.

We also race GTP in the world online Sports Car endurance championship. (monthly)

Recently we´ve tryed some LFS races, but its a bit hard to tell if it will get much attention in the future, I dont think so.

I like the game, and some of my Finn buddys (40y+) have now bought it and have got into racing it with me. They find Nascar, GPL etc. too hard to race with, LFS has slow cars and wide tracks that makes it easy straight off the block.
Heh, even my brother bought the game so he can watch us race (he dosnt play at all) and now makes an excellent server for us. If cóurse one extra point is that the game has a Finnsih menu for the non english speaking.

Real cars and real tracks are the thing that atracts most serious simmers I suppose, although its not a big issue for me, but I can see how it is for lots of guys my age that i race with. That will be an important thing for many when rFactor modders start releasing real tracks.
Although, with reflexes and eyes getting old and wheary, LFS with wide tracks and slow cars is getting more and more my kinda cup of tee.

I´d realy love to race my Mini in long endurance races.

[tailing]

I think that LFS is just more accesible overall, it's also more open than many other sims. How many other sims allow you to play with a mouse or a keyboard, not many. I also think the community is more open minded and not so stuffy like the older more established sims. The comments in that issue of ASS was the perfect example of how intolerant the supposed 'hardcore' sim racers can be.

[Madman_CZ]

i dont think LFS attracts younger people more, i find the age field to be widely spread though its true younger people have more time to play games these days than soem mature lfs members...... also the every spready of home pc's is ading younger players to get online at an earlier age....

maybe the devs should make a graph on lfsworld which would put together all the ages of licensed racers :D if they have entered their DOB correctly

or someone start an age poll to get some numbers :clapclap:

btw i am 20


mad:nana:

[Gunn]

Lots of Dads in LFS.

[Racer Y]

I really don't know anybody in the real world that plays racing games, sims consoles or whatever. They just don't around here. But one thing I noticed when my son's friends come over, if they play LFS, they usually don't like it. they prefer the NFSU type stuff - yet still don't play that either. Now when my friends come over, they actually like playing it. I think it's the wheel though TBH.
You know, to them it's a totally different way to interact with the computer
a mouse and a K/b. But they all like RTS games. Mainly Red Alert. Man we've played that game and it's Variants since 1995... I'm sick of Tesla towers and Tiberium!!!!!!
But online I notice most people that play when I do are adults of some sort a demographic group. there's quite a bit a kids, but mostly adults.

[jmkz]

I thought the main driving force behind the game industry were males between 25-35; which buy the most gaming related gear (games/pc/console)

[W1LLSD4D]

Lots of Dads in LFS.

One here :)

Can't wait for my son (3) to be old enough to race against

[tristancliffe]

Well he's 2 years late already then!! Start 'em young!

[W1LLSD4D]

Well he's 2 years late already then!! Start 'em young!

Actually....
he loves the BL car park - I do the pedals & he does the steering :)

However....
he's a wrecker and we have to bash the car up :( so better keep him off-line for a while :D

[DodgeRacer]

I dont think its a younger audiance than in Nascar 2003 thats for sure, that was split like 60/20/20, 60 being the sub 18 year olds, 20% the 18-30 year olds and 20% the older crowd, I see a much higher 18-30 year old % in LFS, and it showes in the racing, I see a lot more skill over here, and a lot more maturity. Most nascar 2003 races ended up with some young kid (12-16) going out full blast and spining out wrecking half the field and starting a huge flame war haha.

[Jouni Trogen]

It would be great to hear from a father / son playing this game.

My son (30y) isnt interested in racing games, but I have fun racing my nephew however.
A dream would be to race a grandson some day!!!

[ajp71]

I think it's the general arcadey feel, not saying there bad, but LFS does not present itself like a sim, that combined with the demo car selection and a drifting are likely to attract the younger players in a way that GPL/N2003 would not.

[5th Earth]

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

[Chris_Kerry]

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

Not many.

[mrodgers]

When I think of you all saying there are alot of young people in LFS, I think of ages under 20. To me at the times that I am racing, it just doesn't seem to be that young of a crowd. The maturity level that I encounter usually is quite good. I know a few who are 20-22, but assume that most are around my age (33). I know Tweak who I believe is 20 I think and there is Gu3st (is that his LFS name?) who is the youngest that I know of and is 13. But then some have surprised me, W.Gooden and Modoff from Team 400 who I always assumed were late 20's to very early 30's. I just recently learned they were 16. Also there is Infiniti, who I knew back in the S2 demo and just learned he turned 16. I must say, I'm impressed with the maturity level of those I do know under the age of 20 as I've known them online for quite a few months since S2 demo and never realized their actual age. It does amaze me how young and old alike can get together anonymously every night racing computer games and having a great time together. And for all you youngsters out there, you can thank us 30 year olds for bringing them to you. What would life for you be like if we didn't bug our parents to death to get an Atari 2600 or Intellevision back 20 years ago. :throwrose :bowdown: :laola:

[Shotglass]

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

none of which explains why there would be more younger players than in other games ... on the contrary these arguments make you wonder why lfs doesnt have a much lager playerbase than it currently has

[GTR_Yuni]

IMO it has to because most are tired of other driving games.

Not talking about GPL or NR2003 or RFactor, but it's quite well known nowadays. A well known game usually attracts a lot of people.

BTW, I've played LFS since I was 10.
I'm 12 nowadays, and I can do 1:34s-1:36s? WTF?

[Gabkicks]

i think its because of how easy lfs is to set up :) and the great netcode. Maybe the bright colors play a part too and the growing popularity of autosport. I started playing right before i got my drivers license and driving techniques translate well from this "game" into real life, though i have driven few cars with as "sporty" handling as the ones in the "game".
the "game" has a very solid organic feel to it.

What drew me were the great physics, great framerate with good graphics, and i'm also starting to become a more competitive racer.

I predict that once more realistic engine damage is added, many more people will join to just play around with destruction derbies. and once they grow bored with that they will get serious about racing and our community will grow. There is more good than bad in LFS's future.:nana:

[Misko]

Simple answer: LFS is fun unlike every other "boring" sim. :) Sims are boring to everybody but true fans of motorsports and LFS has much more to it than that. LFS is a game with cars in a realistic way. It can be as fun or as serious as its players make it.

And to make it even more amazing, LFS does not have any arcadey features and options like other sims have (easy arcade physics, damage off, tirewear off, time, wear, fuel multiplyers and so on). ;) It always stays totally true and realistic and its still fun. No other sim ever achieved that.

[RudiTurbo]

I kinda dont really see the LFS ppl being young, most of the drivers are around 20 or more. I'm 17, but I rearly meet drivers at My age. Only lately I've started to meet some faster peeps around 17, 18 and that is not so Young anymore :)
And pls dont think about the demo when talking about this, demo is a whole different place, it's the underground of LFS :)

[Tweaker]

And pls dont think about the demo when talking about this, demo is a whole different place, it's the underground of LFS :)
More like the playground of LFS :nod:

[StanleyCarter]

I'm 17

you're only 17!? :Looking_a

wow, I must say, you kids can really drive :thumb:

[avih]

well, ppl around 18-23 are at their top u know. from there onwards you start losing brain cells but gain experience. if you look at proffesional racers, most are "young". 30 is starting to be considered as old. ppl at the army are young. proffesional sport players are young.

however, racing is a sport where experience can compensate for reaction time and that's why there are more older guys racing than, say, playing CS.

specifically about the original question, i think that in LFS the presentation is fun and attractive. you can have names with colors, you can send and recieve setups so easily, the track and cars are colorful and good looking, driving is fun. it's very democratic (vote about everything), online play is so easy to do. LFS is just so "alive" and the presentation is much less boring that other "proffesional simulations".

it's just an attractive simulation, that's all ;)

[Racer Y]

specifically about the original question, i think that in LFS the presentation is fun and attractive. you can have names with colors, you can send and recieve setups so easily, the track and cars are colorful and good looking, driving is fun. it's very democratic (vote about everything), online play is so easy to do. LFS is just so "alive" and the presentation is much less boring that other "proffesional simulations".

it's just an attractive simulation, that's all ;)

Uh Wait a minute......
I hear this line of reasoning quite a bit in this thread. Now lemme ask you something, Y'all don't think that the ease of getting online, the ease of changing set ups and the variety of racing offered Wouldn't be appealing to an older person? Y'all don't think the small town atmosphere or the laid back approach to playing doesn't appeal to older people?

As an "Old Guy", I think GPL is waaayyy too much of a headache to even almost deal with. GO here - get this patch, go there-get that file... after about a month of getting all your crap together you might can play against 4 ppl - if you can find them. Who in their right mind wants that?
( oh I get it...senile people would :) ) then NASCAR....... I just couldn't get into that at all and from what I seen of their community, they seem to take it too serious anyways....I don't play video games to increase my stress...
that's what a family is for.

The reason LFS seems to attract younger people is simply because younger people are the ones that buy video games. as you get older, you tend to play and buy less and less.

[W1LLSD4D]

I think short (5 - 10 minute) races are appealing to the younger audience too. cf (say) in GPL you have 30 mins qual followed by a 20 minute race & you're pushing an hour...

[Shotglass]

And pls dont think about the demo when talking about this, demo is a whole different place, it's the underground of LFS :)

lfs: undergound ... now what does this remind me of ?

[avih]

Uh Wait a minute......
I hear this line of reasoning quite a bit in this thread. Now lemme ask you something, Y'all don't think that the ease of getting online, the ease of changing set ups and the variety of racing offered Wouldn't be appealing to an older person? Y'all don't think the small town atmosphere or the laid back approach to playing doesn't appeal to older people?

As an "Old Guy", I think GPL is waaayyy too much of a headache to even almost deal with. GO here - get this patch, go there-get that file... after about a month of getting all your crap together you might can play against 4 ppl - if you can find them. Who in their right mind wants that?
( oh I get it...senile people would :) ) then NASCAR....... I just couldn't get into that at all and from what I seen of their community, they seem to take it too serious anyways....I don't play video games to increase my stress...
that's what a family is for.

The reason LFS seems to attract younger people is simply because younger people are the ones that buy video games. as you get older, you tend to play and buy less and less.

imho, lfs is VERY easy to use. unzip and you're ready to go. i'm 34 btw.

[mrodgers]

you're only 17!? :Looking_a

wow, I must say, you kids can really drive :thumb:
I was thinking the same thing. There's one more to add to the youngsters that I now know.

[Zero7]

I only started playing S1 not long before S2 was released and I have to say that it hooked me pretty much straight away. The ease of navigating the menus to setting up your car (although that is still a black art to me to get it right!).

Now, at 34 and with a family, LFS is perfect for the quick half hour race every now and then. There's no way that I could afford the time of 2 - 3 hours of going through qualifying and then a full blown 30 or 40 lap race (the idea of doing this is very attractive though - I just think a divorce would probably be on the table before I knew it!). When you've got a family, priorities are in other areas and LFS allows many of us a quick fix to de-stress from day-to-day life.

The younger players have the time, patience (generally, not always) and persistance to get good at games. Us "old-uns" have the experience (someone else mentioned this) and use this to our advantage.

Anyway, young or old, we all enjoy our favourite sim and have a blast with it.

[Thunder Child]

One here :)

Can't wait for my son (3) to be old enough to race against
I'm a father of 5

Unfortunately, only my youngest, who is 8, is really interested in sim racing. I think it’s great however that a sim such as this bridges the generation gap as well as it does.


Keep in mind, the young of today will be the aged of tomorrow

[Fonnybone]

I'll say it again, i don't see much relation between age and LFS, i DO feel the
LFS community is more mature in comparision with MANY other car/racing
communities, not to mention the FPS crowd...

I just wonder if i'm the only one to have heard how the 1st gen Playstation
was mostly a male from 20-30 thing because of one MAJOR factor, not many
'kids' had 300$+ for a game console, even less the 60-70$ for each games.
That alone i believe to be the major factor for the average age of console
buyers when they started getting serious (15-20 years ago). Dads told their
wifes "it's for the kids", but it was really an attempt to recreate their
childhood. Which brings me to the other major factor imo that was something
i've read here recently that i hadn't realised even though it's obvious. We
(25-30ish) are the Nintendo generation. We grew up with the very first ones,
like the famous Atari, saw the birth of Nintendo, we grew up with Mario
Brothers, PacMan, etc... it's only normal that as (we) these men approach
their middle age crisis, (we) they seek to recreate their childhood ;) Hehe, i'm
pushing a bit here, but it's still a factor i think.

Then, as mentionned somewhere in this thread, PCs became more and more
common in households giving access to a wide audience, heck, even my
granma is now "...surfing the net"
- "Ok, stop saying that Granma"
- "What, you don't think your granma can be cool too, eh ?"
- "No no, you're cool ,Granma , just, sigh, ah nevermind."

I'm actually proud of my Granma :) So there lies my view of the whole thing.
Until i see some actual numbers from Vic or something, i'm not about to
assume LFS, or any other 'game' attract any more 'kids' than 'geezers'.
Of course, you guys realise that to most women, we are ALL kids ! :)

[Gabkicks]

you're only 17!? :Looking_a

wow, I must say, you kids can really drive :thumb:

lol. look at lfsworld stats. :tilt: that is a lot of seattime. i'm 18 :D

[Hallen]

well, ppl around 18-23 are at their top u know. from there onwards you start losing brain cells but gain experience.
if you look at proffesional racers, most are "young". 30 is starting to be considered as old. ppl at the army are young. proffesional sport players are young. Ya, but just because you have more brain cells does not mean anything, you have to USE them too... and that is where the experience comes in :fence:

however, racing is a sport where experience can compensate for reaction time and that's why there are more older guys racing than, say, playing CS. What makes you think old guys don't have the reaction speed? My feet are slower... but that is beacuse I am out of shape and heavier. I am just as quick as I ever was.

Young guys are the norm in professional racing? I would have to say that seems to be more of a trend now. But I think that has more to do with marketing and the maturity of ladder systems and the fact that kids start racing much ealier in life now, so they have the experience they need by the time they are 24. Plus, I think it ties back in with point #1, the proliferation of unused brain cells, and the certain knowledge that you are invincible :pillepall :D :eek:

In my earlier post I jokingly said that people in their 20's were kids to me. Well, that probably did not come across too well. They are young, but not really kids. I take each person, either online or off, based on the merrits of that person, not some silly guage like how many years you have been around. My point of the above comments, is the same but reversed.:nana:

[Infiniti]

Im 16 as some know but I could careless if the guy behind me is 13 and they guy infront of me is 50, All i care about is how mature they are, if the 13 year old runs up my back and is mature about it saying sorry, then I forgive, but if he rams me purpously I do get pretty angry people say its just a game, well ya but you'd be pretty mad if someone ruined your fun, i dont take it serious but I play for fun, its like turning someones tv off during a good scene! Then if i run up the back of the 50 year old and I say Im sorry (F4) :razz: and he says oh its alright dont worry bout it "stuff" happens. Or the other scenario I say sorry and he blows his top telling me to learn to drive stay offline and cussing his wrinkly balls off at me then that ruins the fun (no offense to the men that are getting old and erm wrinkly lol, sorry others had to hear that :trampolin) anyways im rambling on, but thats the gist of thing, Sim racers are more likely to be more mature. That is all for now, Happy racing!

[ajp71]

I think it's true that LFS has a younger age than the other true sims (which IMO have only ever been made by Papy and maybe GTR) I personally don't think this has to be a problem, I'm 15 and have been racing seriously for about a year, I started racing in N2003.

I don't think real life experience is too important, the UF 1000 feels nothing like any of the Minis I've ever driven (2 1000s and a Copper), it may handle the same but the feel through the wheel just isn't there. So seeing as one has to relearn how to read the feedback from sims I think it's more the length of time one has been sim racing for than real life experience.

[Tweaker]

I don't think real life experience is too important, the UF 1000 feels nothing like any of the Minis I've ever driven (2 1000s and a Copper), it may handle the same but the feel through the wheel just isn't there.
Well, it'd pretty damn hard to make the wheel feel as stiff of steering as a car like that. I drove a lot of VW beetles before, which I am sure the steering kind of feels the same, and it is basically like a go-kart. Unless you use 100%+ centerspring on a forcefeedback wheel, the UF1 is great feeling :)

[XCNuse]

to me.. its not so much the age.. what wonders me is whats causing these people to WANT to crash people in big races

anyways.. im 17, and i've been playing for 2 years now
ever since the demo i've gotten hooked to it
and i can even remember the picture that lead me to LFS.. the one of the purple and orange GTT's drifting around some turn, thought it was neat (this was at blackholemotorsports website that i had found through google) .. so went to it, looked at some pictures and downloaded the demo, and about a month after that i bought S1

[Gunn]

well, ppl around 18-23 are at their top u know. from there onwards you start losing brain cells but gain experience. if you look at proffesional racers, most are "young". 30 is starting to be considered as old. ppl at the army are young. proffesional sport players are young.
Recent studies prove that the human brain doesn't finish developing until around the age of 25-28, so that blows your theory out of the water. ;) It has been proven that an adult brain (25+) is more agile and coherent than a younger brain.

Somebody try telling Andre Agassi he isn't on par with the young'ns! :D

Honestly I do see a lot of young people in LFS but the Internet is full of young people. Mostly I see an older crowd playing LFS. My own team has ages ranging from 17 - 40, most are in their mid 20's.