Custom Series (long)

[Burnzoire]

Custom Series creation. (for S3?)

Ok this is quite a large improvement suggestion - but I feel it's the missing link in the sim as it stands now. I got to thinking about this when a bunch of my mates got into racing sims but chose rFactor instead of LFS (despite my best efforts at persuading them otherwise). The reason rFactor appeals to them more was the mods that allow such things as Aussie V8s, F1, Formula Ford (i think) and so on. These mods attempt to give the sim a sense of belonging, whereas LFS at the moment is simply a big garage of cars that can be raced on a bunch of tracks. I still prefer to drive LFS because it feels great, but I it only really supports random racing. Any league has to be carefully managed by 3rd party websites or just enforced by someone on a forum for example. What I'm suggesting is that LFS gets a custom series generator that can be used by servers to host numerous organised races.

If you're still unsure what I mean, think of a sports game like FIFA. It allows you to create your own tournament, select the rosters, the type of tournament, rules, etc. I think something like this would turn LFS into such a massively flexible tool whilst still keeping the anominity of the unbranded cars and fictional tracks.

Here's a quick example of the kind of options I imagine you'd get in the menu, perhaps when creating a server. It could even be a web-based solution, but in-game would be ideal.

new series
series name <name>
allow teams to join mid-season (yes, no)

add class
class name <name>
add car (car type) - FOX, FXR etc
roof (yes, no, either)
passengers (none, x) (maybe handy for navigators?)
setup (any, stock)
stock setup - select a setup to be enforced for every driver
etc

add round
location (Aston, Blackwood, etc)
add race
race name - common names include sprint/feature or race 1 etc
track config
time of day - not really implemented
conditions - (localised weather, always fine, rain, random, etc) - not implemented
distance (laps or time)
compulsory stop (yes, no)
pit window open (lap#)
pit window close (lap#)
compulsory brake change (yes, no) - enduro races, notimplemented
driver changes (no, yes) - enduro
non-championship round (yes, no)
qualify (yes, grid from last race result, reverse grid from last raceresult, championship order, reverse championship order)
alternate qualyfying format (yes, no) - to allow multiple formats which is common for enduro rounds
rolling start (no, yes) - not implemented


pitstops
tyre changes in race (unlimited, xx, none unless punctured/damaged)
wheel crew (2..8) - 1 per side? one for each wheel? etc. not implemented in LFS

fuel
add fuel brand - not implemented
refuelling (yes, no)

tyres
control tyre (yes, no)
if no:
add tyre manufacturer (different properties that perform differently at each track) - not implemented
add tyre compounds (Road, Hybrid, R1, R2, R3, R4 etc)
tyre sets per weekend (xx, unlimited)
if limited:
sets per practice (xx, unlimited)
sets per qualy (xx, unlimited)
sets per race (xx, unlimited)
no tyre change from qualy to race start (yes, no) - i.e parc ferme


teams
add team
add car (limited by list)
number - not implemented
reserved seat (driver name) - if none entered, the seat is open to anyone
livery ?
max cars per team (x)
championships (driver, team, both)

qualifying
primary format (shootout, top 10 shootout, elimination, timed session)
secondary format (shootout, top 10 shootout, elimination, timed session)
timed session length (minutes) - if applicable. All other formats can be predefined.

points system - probably no need having different points system for team standings
1st (x points)
2nd (x)
3rd (x)
4th (x)
5th (x)
6th (x)
7th (x)
8th (x)
9th (x)
10th (x)
11th (x)
12th (x)
13th (x)
14th (x)
15th (x) - need any more???
drop worst round (no, yes)
pole position points (x)
fastest lap points (x)

rules & penalties
blue flag (yes, no)
etc

safety car - not implemented
pit lane closed (yes, no)
cars may unlap themselves (no, yes) - to avoid backmarkers getting in the way for the restart
restart on grid (no, yes) - no assumes a rolling re-start

Ok so this is really over the top I know, but it's more of a bigger picture. I've greyed out things that would require new features to be added before any of it could be customised.

My goal is to devise a system that is flexible enough to allow us to simulate our favourite racing series, or atleast coem close to it. I've started with quite a lot of customisation, but it'd probably be more realistic to come up with a simpler means to create these series.

At the very least, a future version of LFS needs to have some sort of pre-defined tournaments - but how cool would it be to be able to make your own? :scratchch

If you think this would be a good idea (and I'm talking S3 or S4 here) then please post what you think should or should not be configurable when you create your own series!

[Shinrar]

Its an interesting idea. Fits a rather specialized niche, but it would be kinda neat. Essentually just make league races part of the game, rather than making the game do the league races. Although useless for pickup games, and leagues can already do much of this (and a little more) with a little effort...

I think the major benifits would be the tyres (being limited to a number other than unlimited sets, either over a season or for a particular round. Especially once the tyre physics are completed), and things of that nature that are really just too much of a pain to moniter as currently is.

However, if I may make a minor suggestive improvement...
Remove the stock setup option. As far as I know, no racing series forces its racing teams to use cars with specific settings. Its just way to hard to enforce in real life, and I see no real bonus for using it in LFS.

For the no tyre change from qual to race start... What would the drop in tyre tempature be like? I know if I let my car sit on R2s for a little too long, such as say, the cars are lining up in their appropraite spots to race and just sitting there, they will turn BLACK. Seriously, its kinda funny to watch me drive on 25 degree celcius tyres, but my point is: Would there be a scripted drop in tempatures, so only wear is carried over?

Thirdly, for endurance type races... An option to allow a team to net some points for completing a certain percentage of race may be interesting. Such as, say, in a 24 hour race, if the team completes 85% of it and has to DNF because of mechanical failure, they still have a chance to net some points for simply completing enough of it.

Anywho, enough of my talking...

[duke_toaster]

What about an average speed based points system? (No real series has this though).

[Burnzoire]

Its an interesting idea. Fits a rather specialized niche, but it would be kinda neat. Essentually just make league races part of the game, rather than making the game do the league races. Although useless for pickup games, and leagues can already do much of this (and a little more) with a little effort...

I think the major benifits would be the tyres (being limited to a number other than unlimited sets, either over a season or for a particular round. Especially once the tyre physics are completed), and things of that nature that are really just too much of a pain to moniter as currently is.

However, if I may make a minor suggestive improvement...
Remove the stock setup option. As far as I know, no racing series forces its racing teams to use cars with specific settings. Its just way to hard to enforce in real life, and I see no real bonus for using it in LFS.

For the no tyre change from qual to race start... What would the drop in tyre tempature be like? I know if I let my car sit on R2s for a little too long, such as say, the cars are lining up in their appropraite spots to race and just sitting there, they will turn BLACK. Seriously, its kinda funny to watch me drive on 25 degree celcius tyres, but my point is: Would there be a scripted drop in tempatures, so only wear is carried over?

Thirdly, for endurance type races... An option to allow a team to net some points for completing a certain percentage of race may be interesting. Such as, say, in a 24 hour race, if the team completes 85% of it and has to DNF because of mechanical failure, they still have a chance to net some points for simply completing enough of it.

Anywho, enough of my talking...

I agree, stock setups are probably pointless. I race in a league where we have to use default setups which I think is pretty dumb, but some people have issues with downloadable setups :shrug: I personally hate default as it disagrees with my driving style.

anyway... regarding tyres. I was basing it of F1, but the be honest I can't recall if they can change tyres or not... pretty sure everthing is in parc ferme until the race. A warmup lap would help the tyres, or even just scripted heat, as some series (f1 again) use tyre warmers on the grid.

I'm not sure how the points system works for 24 hour races, but obviously we'd need some flexibilty to allow that.

[Burnzoire]

I'll have another look at this soon and post a more well thought out version

[wsinda]

This should be a separate program. And it doesn't need to come from the devs -- it could be a third-party add-on. Most of the features that you describe can already be implemented, using the scripting system to control the race, and InSim to extract results.

[AndRand]

There is 30 subforums for leagues.

I dont think they have races more frequent than 1 per week.

do you think people will need a questionnare to make an instant league? :really:

[SamH]

Better late than never..

+1. I love the idea of in-LFSW league structuring. Associating race results with defined leagues within LFSW would definitely be a huge plus for LFSW :)

[Burnzoire]

:D

yeah don't take my example too litereally, there's so many ways of accomplishing the same thing.

on a side note... I'd love to see LFS's GUI updated with LFSW integrated into it (but keeping the website in parallel). The LFS menus are too large and clunky at the moment to allow this, and are alerady getting cluttered with the extra options being added in the latest patches.

[duke_toaster]

on a side note... I'd love to see LFS's GUI updated with LFSW integrated into it (but keeping the website in parallel). The LFS menus are too large and clunky at the moment to allow this, and are alerady getting cluttered with the extra options being added in the latest patches.

I would love that.

[srdsprinter]

+1, for the idea. It would take some work, but would be neat in concept.

It also spurred on this idea. An interesting thing could be:

For the duration of the league, have an option for total tire sets available. LFS could then track and limit the amount of prerace testing teams could do, which could help limit the amount of perfectly aligned hotlaps in place of real racing.

When my teamate and I completed over 2,000 miles of testing for a recent endurance event, it got me thinking. The event was on South City Long, a track that would in reality be set up for only one weekend, then dismantled. At a Maximum we would have had only 2 days of practice for the event. But in the game, we spent weeks tweaking setups and learning lines.

Anyway, definately not for everyone, but I think it conceptually could be another option for official leagues.