Some problems with G25

[Ebiggs]

I just tried the G25 with LFS for the first time yesterday, but it has a few quirks. It works perfectly with GTR2 and rFactor. For one, with auto clutch turned off, it is still impossible to stall. Instead the game just applies clutch and gas and barely keeps the car rolling. Second, you can not flat-shift. If you do not use the clutch when you shift, the game will not recognize the shift (or even into neutral) until you press the clutch again. Finally, at very low speeds, the wheel starts shaking violently. The FFB is fine any other time.


This is all with the demo, by the way.

[tristancliffe]

These are not problems with the G25, but limitations in LFS at the moment.

Scawen is aware of the simplistic nature of the drivetrain simulation in LFS, and I'm sure he'll get round to fixing it, especially as the G25 seems to be very popular already.

LFS cars don't stall - the auto clutch always kicks in to save you. Annoying, but that's life at the moment.
Gear changes in LFS always require some clutch, and yes it is annoying that a mistimed clutch jab just gives you neutral. A better way would be to allow the shift, but damage part of the drivetrain, perhaps making gear changes less reliable or something (as well as locking wheels on downshifts).

The FFB oscillation depends on your strength settings - personally I'm using 100% in control panel and about 160% in LFS just to show off the action, and it's okay. But much more gives me oscillations at higher speeds. Exactly what conditions give slow speed oscillations?

[glyphon]

Clutch-stalling hasn't been implemented in the game yet. i think it is slated to be, but i'm not positive of that, and have no idea of what kind of priority it has in the development schedule or timeline line. and coming from me (or anyone other than a developer) is just heresay ;)

i've been able to shift without using the clutch...from a stop all the way through 6th, so i'm not sure what the issue is there.

as for the FFB, i haven't had any issues with the wheel shaking violently except when i had the logitech profiler FFB strength set at max. after turning it back down to 100 no issues.

my profiler settings are
no combined
100
100
100
centering on
100

LFS ffb set at 65.

[skstibi]

lol, I have wrecked so many times in LFS because my foot slipped and the car goes into neutral. I would much rather have a damaged gear box than a destroyed car :nod:

I will get my G25 on the 13th. Hopefully

[Davo]

If I set my wheel to 100% FF then when the car is ilding the wheel shakes from side and vibrates like no tomorrow. I play with comnbined off 50,0,0, centering on at 0 in profiler and 60% in LFS and that's fine for me, makes it easier to drive as well instead of feeling like im driving a manual steering car. To me it feels good and offers plemnty of feedback I can feel ther ripple strips and everything, I just can't play with more force!

[sshhaabb]

If I set my wheel to 100% FF then when the car is ilding the wheel shakes from side and vibrates like no tomorrow. I play with comnbined off 50,0,0, centering on at 0 in profiler and 60% in LFS and that's fine for me, makes it easier to drive as well instead of feeling like im driving a manual steering car. To me it feels good and offers plemnty of feedback I can feel ther ripple strips and everything, I just can't play with more force!


Try reinstalling the sofware closing anti virus programs I think there is a sofware problem the new version 5.0.

[Davo]

No need to reinstall since it works fine and I don't want to stuff it up. I use NOD32 AV btw.

[turbo4door]

I'm having lots of issues as well with the g25.

If I use the Logi Profiler I get some odd happenings. At low speeds or stops I get very voilent left then right FFB (it shakes the whole desk). I also cannot seem to change the degree of rotation unless I exit the Logi Profiler and use Control Panel > Game Controllers to change the settings. Nothing I change in LFS makes a difference either (in the controller settings IN game).

This all stops if I unload the Logi Profiler. I'm thinking its being caused by a conflict with my Logi Dinovo wireless USB keyboard/mouse. I've tried re-installing and deleting any hardware profiles or anything associated with the Logi Profiler and G25. Even after about 5 or 6 tries I still get the same issue. Basically the wheel is going lock to lock at a stop or slow speed.

Any ideas? I heard that a "normal" install of the Logi Software requires a restart of windows, mine never has. Also, I'm switching from a Momo FFB

[dawesdust_12]

1) controller settings in LFS don't affect rotation, only the rotation of the ingame wheel.

[Ebiggs]

I'm having lots of issues as well with the g25.

If I use the Logi Profiler I get some odd happenings. At low speeds or stops I get very voilent left then right FFB (it shakes the whole desk). I also cannot seem to change the degree of rotation unless I exit the Logi Profiler and use Control Panel > Game Controllers to change the settings. Nothing I change in LFS makes a difference either (in the controller settings IN game).

This all stops if I unload the Logi Profiler. I'm thinking its being caused by a conflict with my Logi Dinovo wireless USB keyboard/mouse. I've tried re-installing and deleting any hardware profiles or anything associated with the Logi Profiler and G25. Even after about 5 or 6 tries I still get the same issue. Basically the wheel is going lock to lock at a stop or slow speed.

Any ideas? I heard that a "normal" install of the Logi Software requires a restart of windows, mine never has. Also, I'm switching from a Momo FFB

My FFB problems are the same as yours and Davo's. Under normal driving conditions the FFB is how it should be, but at a stop or sometimes barely rolling it goes nuts and shakes back and forth violently. It does it whenever the autoclutch kicks in to prevent a stall also.

As for adjusting rotation, the game controllers setting in Windows actually makes the wheel stop from turning past a certain point. In the game it just makes the car's wheels stop turning after a certain point, even though you can still turn the G25 further. That extra movement just won't be doing anything.

[Davo]

The rotation thing is normal. if you set a value smaller than 900 then it's upto the force feedback motors to block further rotation. They don't really do a good job of it and you can still keep turning it.

[spankmeyer]

The rotation thing is normal. if you set a value smaller than 900 then it's upto the force feedback motors to block further rotation. They don't really do a good job of it and you can still keep turning it.

Negative.

I use very little force compared to some of you, but the FF wheel lock is solid even with my settings (100% force in CP, around 20% in LFS).

[frokki]

Gear changes in LFS always require some clutch, and yes it is annoying that a mistimed clutch jab just gives you neutral. A better way would be to allow the shift, but damage part of the drivetrain, perhaps making gear changes less reliable or something (as well as locking wheels on downshifts).I disagree. If I mistime clutch in real life, the gear wont plug in by normal amount of force. Instead I 'get scared' of the sudden resisting force and the awful grinding sound, leaving the gear on neutral. Then I just clutch in and make the gear change again. In LFS it feels stupid, because you can't feel the misclutch in your shifter or hear it from the speakers (yet), and therefore the time spent on neutral becomes much longer. But it's definately better than allowing the shift in all occasions.

[tristancliffe]

The trouble is the gear lever is a wobbly thing not actually connected to the car. So no matter what you do to the car, even if you remove the actual gearbox of the car, you can still select gears.

So already we have a problem.

Now imagine that the driver selects a gear, but doesn't do the clutch/throttle quite right. What happens now? Currently in LFS you dip the clutch and all is sorted, but that seems a bit pansy. The alternative would be to wait for the gear lever to be returned to neutral, and the shift sequence restarted by the driver. Thus the driver will soon learn not to take his hand off the shifter until the shift is complete, like he wouldn't in real life (only with more feedback).

By all means play a sound, but sometimes when I miss a shift in real life (either in road cars or racing cars with dog-clutch 'boxes) it doesn't always make a noise when the gears fail to go in (although slicks don't squeal like they do in LFS, and I understand a non-realistic sound is sometimes required to overcome a lack of tactile feedback).

Making a gearbox simulation that works fairly with a shifter that isn't connected to the car is quite hard in my opinion, and I doubt the first solution from Scavier Solutions will be the best one.

[lyd]

The alternative would be to wait for the gear lever to be returned to neutral, and the shift sequence restarted by the driver.

This makes sense to me. Actually, it is what I have been doing anyway, just out of habit. I have also been double-cutching whenever this happens, also out of habit acquired due to the failing syncros in my RL road car's trans. ;-)

I should probably work on breaking the second one.

lyd

[kompa]

OT but here goes, does anyone other than Scawen actually know what 'FFB Steps' really does? Can it have a negative effect if set too high/low? Should it be set to as low as possible?

[Bob Smith]

As high as possible.

Possible values are (IIRC): 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256

More steps increases the smoothness of the FFB. Just try it at 4 then at 256, the difference should be blindingly obvious.

[glyphon]

hmm...haven't changed the FFB steps. what's the default value?

[Bob Smith]

128

[kompa]

That's what I thought. The question remains: if 128 feels as good as 256, is it better to have it set to 128? I wanna take everything into consideration with this purchase...I'd hate to find out later that too much ffb steps just wears the motors more without any benefits or something similar :pillepall

Yeah, I'm a bit paranoid...

[Scawen]

You can safely set it to 256, if you don't experience loss of frame rate or controller lag as a result.

[glyphon]

i finally remember to change the FFB steps from 128 to 256, and I'm completely amazed by the difference that it made. i always thought that the g25's FFB was smooth, but set to 256, it's like buttah. it's also much quieter, and i'm not even one of the people that was having the noise problems when turning the wheel in one direction.

[Scawen]

I've now set 256 as the default value.

[GP4Flo]

I've now set 256 as the default value.
:up:

[lowgoods]

Anyone else has this problem, that the wheel turn setting somehow does not work properly with LFS (U30), when the profiler is active? For example, when I set wheel turn to 720° in both the global device settings and within LFS, everything works as expected: Exact corellation between virtual and real wheel along with lock after 360° turn simulated by the FF engines of the wheel. If the Logitech profiler is active, however, the same settings generate a virtual wheel move range that is far to small. This problem does not appear with other games like RBR or GPL...

[Davo]

Are your settings the same or different in the profiler for lfs, that could cause it.

[lowgoods]

the same

[Davo]

If youre saying that the steering is ultra sensitive then I've had the same thing happen a few times to me and a re-calibration moving the wheel from limit to limit right fixed the problem for me.

[Woz]

I have never had issues with my G25 or DFP before it. One thing... I NEVER use the profiler software. I set my wheel to 720degs and then tweak the clutch with DXTweak2 to make it operate more normally.

Could the profiller be the issue?

[Davo]

Could be as some ppl also say it stuffs things up. Personally I've never had a problem with it, but I know Logi software can be bitchy at the best of times. Usually a USB port swap or reinstall of the software fixes it though. I use the profiler, dunno why since the only game I play is LFS it works fine for me.

[lowgoods]

it definitly has something to do with the profiler. if i dont use it, everything works fine. however, i would like to use it in order to create different profiles for the LFS cars with different lock-to-lock-angles (270° for MRT, 720° for the road cars etc...).

best solution would be, if LFS could adjust this setting in the Logitech driver automatically (depending on the setting i choose in lfs). But i dont know if this is possible with the API for game controllers...