What's wrong with the RAC?

[Fischfix]

I've just flew over the statistics and it tells me the RAC is the car with the less usage in the game. What's wrong with it? Why is nobody driving that sucker?

[Peptis]

Personally, I find it very difficult to drive. The back end seems to be much faster than the front, it keeps overtaking me in corners.

[deggis]

RAC and FZ50 just highlights the current physics issues better than the other cars.

[Hyperactive]

At higher speeds it can be a bit painful to drive. Of course it is as nice ride as any other car in LFS, it just takes a bit more time than the average FOX to learn to throw it around.

For tracks like Ky2 or the short city configs it suits almost perfectly imho :)

[evilgeek]

i wanted to like it, but the back end has a mind of it's own and it's almost impossible to control.

[bbman]

My usual cornering in the RAC: extreme understeer into the corner, and wild oversteer out of it... And I didn't found a setup that suited me yet... So, if I can help it, I drive the LX6 or the FZ5 instead...

[george_tsiros]

It needs very very gentle throttle control.

Also you must keep it UNDER control all the time, it takes a lot of skill to control it at the LIMIT.

[nosliw]

Personally, I find it very difficult to drive. The back end seems to be much faster than the front, it keeps overtaking me in corners.

heck, the back overtakes me on the straights sometimes.

[jayhawk]

Take it to Fern Bay Green; it will show its nasty side there. It will under, over, no steer and then because throttle is very sensitve it will just spin out. Oh, and tthe front and the rear of the car are constantly disagreeing with each other. At the wrong time. Hell, you can spin this car out on a straightaway easily.

[Kronvall]

I like it, but I only drive it on Rallycross tracks. :nod:

[mrodgers]

:shrug: Never really drove it. No reason I haven't really. I like the FZ50. There are a few tracks that I like the LX6 better, but I like the FZ on the majority. I did have a short stint on the oval in the RAC a few nights ago. It felt really good. I was hoping we would change to a different track and run RAC, but everyone pretty much left the server then. I had planned on hunting down servers with it enabled, but never did after that. Perhaps I will in a few minutes.

[Boris Lozac]

I don't find RAC or FZ5 higlighting physics issues..
They are perfectly controlable if you drive them nicely.
I haven't drove FZ5 much before, because everyone were saying that it is uncontrolable, well i find it becoming one of my favorites cars now. I played a bit with some drift set and my god, the car is great. Everything happens with a reason(just like with other cars), the weight transfer is great, i could really feel it. It really is a powerfull monster, very rewarding to drive!
Haven't driven RAC on the other hand that much, but i guess it's the same deal as with FZ50. You have to understand that you can't push them like that, you can't expect RAC to enter the corner in the same speed and stability as FOX for example. You must drive it gently, with gentle inputs, pretending like you'r in a real car.
This also aplies to those comments like "ice physics" and similiar...
Ice physics, jesus, physics is an absolute blast, people just need to realize that you can't expect the car to do something that can't be done.
Drive the RAC and FZ50 slowly for starters, and gradually increase speed... when you find them uncontrollable or "ICEY" it means that you're reached their limits, and they can't grip anymore, just face with that, don't call that "icey" or whatever..

[Marty502]

I don't find RAC or FZ5 higlighting physics issues..
They are perfectly controlable if you drive them nicely.
I haven't drove FZ5 much before, because everyone were saying that it is uncontrolable, well i find it becoming one of my favorites cars now. I played a bit with some drift set and my god, the car is great. Everything happens with a reason(just like with other cars), the weight transfer is great, i could really feel it. It really is a powerfull monster, very rewarding to drive!
Haven't driven RAC on the other hand that much, but i guess it's the same deal as with FZ50. You have to understand that you can't push them like that, you can't expect RAC to enter the corner in the same speed and stability as FOX for example. You must drive it gently, with gentle inputs, pretending like you'r in a real car.
This also aplies to those comments like "ice physics" and similiar...
Ice physics, jesus, physics is an absolute blast, people just need to realize that you can't expect the car to do something that can't be done.
Drive the RAC and FZ50 slowly for starters, and gradually increase speed... when you find them uncontrollable or "ICEY" it means that you're reached their limits, and they can't grip anymore, just face with that, don't call that "icey" or whatever..

Lesson learnt the hard way. I've been a demo user for months and I still can't control the XRT. Hell, even the XRG punches me back from time to time...

[[RCG]Boosted]

i like the RAC for drifting :nod:
but for a normal race its 2 hard for me, cant be competive with that car :shrug:

[T.K.Jode]

I love the RAC... it's one of my favorite cars in LFS simply because it IS hard to drive and I derive great joy from SURVIVING a lap, let alone posting a good time.

It's nimble, light, and has an excellent power to weight ratio. It's hard to find configs for the RAC simply because the nuances of each drivers style makes any one config useless.

I've spent countless laps and track configs fine tuning my general RAC config for MY driving style. I prefer not to have a stiff block of wood for a suspension in the RAC as the understeer gets stupid. I made it slightly softer than the default 'race' config and increased the rear camber a touch. It keeps the back end in check under cornering + throttle a little better. The downside is that keeping the car's balance in check when manouevering around gets a little tricky and fishtailing is a little easy to do.

But I digress. RAC = Awesome. :)

[wildwilly]

ra/fz5/lx6 is probably my favourite class, but unfortunately there is very rarely any servers with ppl racing them, and when they are, they seem to get dumped very quickly because too many ppl have trouble driving them. I dont really find them hard to drive, they just have a lot more power compared to something like the xrt, so you just have to be a bit more careful, but they are all very rewarding once you get the hang of em.

[Tweaker]

The RAC's sliding feels strange to me. It sort of 'yaws' diagonally or something, and the only way to help it manage corners properly is to induce understeer when driving or with the setup. Many people are making setups with high amounts of camber because the car just does not grip in so many ways. It is a bit of a shame because I think the car could be a lot better if it felt more nimble. Though mid engined cars are very snappy, it is a natural for them to act like the RAC does, though I think the RAC is a bit too extreme compared to a mid-engined car's performance. The FZ50 makes the effect even worse by having the engine farther to the rear (and the FZ doesn't even have the proper Porsche suspension model).

I am pretty sure that later on down the road, these two cars will be a blast to drive. For now, I think it is best to give them a chance, since you gain a lot of skill from those snappy cars.

[Rappa Z]

eh, i just find it to spin from anything so i don't like it, also i really don't like tat tiny exhaust pipe, it looks like i couldn't fit a cigar in there. Now, If there were two exhaust pipes, then i would be able to look at it.

[Breizh]

Would the FZ's correct rear suspension type make that much of a difference?

[Flycantbird]

Personally, I find it very difficult to drive. The back end seems to be much faster than the front, it keeps overtaking me in corners.

Lol. Perfect description.

[george_tsiros]

wait... now i understood what has been said...

the RAC is the LEAST popular car???

that's it! from now on, i will only drive the RAC. no other car, ever...

by definition, the best thing can not be popular, because only the least people can comprehend and use the finer characteristics of something superior.

why do you not drive it?? you should be ashamed of yourselves! you left the RAC alone and unloved...

"it is hard to drive whaaa"

WELL, RACING IS SUPPOSED TO BE HARD!

if you want easy, go weave baskets.

grr

[JJ72]

The problem with RAC is mostly under braking, how quickly the weight tranfer and lightens the rear governed the behavior of the car at the corner entry, and that has to compensated by how to apply braking. I had some long with with it on Kyoto Long, and at the double left hander before the contant radius turn that leads to the oval, it was a real headache, it's a corner where you just need to tab the brakes a bit, sometimes the rearend sticks alright, but most of the time it just snaps away from me the instant i put the brake on, or sometimes if I am too gentle on the brake, it understeers and when i try to correct with some more lock, it slide away as well. Later on I realize the method is to turn in early, let the car coast to the apex, hence spreading the weight transition over a longer time and lessen the impact, and use as little steering input as possible, about 3/5 through the turn and before the apex, gentlely apply throttle so the turbo spools up and you get torque, then hold it there, the car will somehow hook on the line better, the rear end pushing the car around in a very stable manner.

most of it's whores come from high speed, at low speed it's very responsive at the front and on tracks like SO, as long as you keep the bumps in check, it's great fun to drive, however pushing it as hard as the other cars would be a bit difficult, I can drive it smoothly and cleanly however my laptime is just 1 second quicker than my LX4 time on SO long, to get quicker I would really need a very nervous car which is beyound my control.

[JCTK]

I'm usually already off the brakes when I turn in with the RAC, this isn't the fastest way to drive, but at least it won't slide all over the place and losing time in the process...

[Woz]

The RA is not that hard it just requires you to be VERY subtle with the controls. Even with RACE_S it is a great drive if you take some of the bite out of the diff.

The problem is that many setups give too much control over weight transfer to your right foot and this is a car you need to balance at all times to keep on the road.

I used to think the same about the LX cars once but now its not that hard to get a race that people manage to keep them on the track.

[Scrabby]

once i used slickmod with it on BL1
:pillepall NEVER AGAIN, on the straights it just went from left to right and visa versa, and the FF was very strange

[Blackout]

What's wrong with it, well, for start with, it doesn't have a anti roll bar at the rear, it's light, mid-engined, it has lot of power but most importantly, it's filled with EVIL spirits! Doesn't mean it's impossible to drive, it's not, but I feel it's the easiest car to overstep, it's very easy overdrive it, you go too fast, understeer or oversteer in corners and it's very easy to blame the car (like all race drivers do). Like said many times in this thread, you just need to be very gentle. Noticed that myself few weeks back when I tried it again, and like it should be with all cars if you understeer don't go that fast in the next time, be smooth with it. It's starting to look like the RAC would be getting the same reputation that LX6 had in S1, it was impossible and pure evil and only the most bravest and skilfully could drive it, is that what it is now?

[DrDNA]

The secret to enjoying the RAC is to make a decent setup! I chose the RAC as a project car for finally getting around to learning the mechanics of a good setup. I never liked it either, so changing anything I didn't like about it really improved things. I eventually turned it into a drift setup when testing one afternoon and ended up with something that can outdrift a lot of the other guys and I'm a rare drifter :). I've found that during oversteer you need to have nearly full opposite lock to catch it properly.

Still, would be nice to see it used more often!

[Antsa]

The secret is to increase tire pressures almost to max. Then all cars act more firmly. For FZ50 I use 3.45 bars for front and 3.50 bars for rear. This might sound unrealistic and fool but after increased tire pressures FZ50 and RAC won't slide all the time and have a realistic amount of basic understeer like Porsche 911.

LFS's current tire flexibility is bit exaggerated and I think that ~3.5 bars is more likely around 2.5-3.0 bars.

I strongly recommend to test the increasement of tire pressures. :tilt:

Here is Bob's Easy to drive setup pack.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=278

[herki]

I don't know people's problems with the RAC, it's quite nice to drive, it doesn't do anything unexspected... Of course it's much easier to drive the FXO, but the RAC is one of the most fun cars in LFS, together with the LXs :tilt:

[Bob Smith]

Here is Bob's Easy to drive setup pack.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=279

Those sets were made for the physics in patch P/Q. They understeer too much when used with S/T/U, IMO. I keep meaning to get around to "fixing" them, but it's a slow and somewhat laborious process when I have to do all the testing alone. ;)

And the RAC actually handles great with the latest physics, it used to be all understeer then oversteer, now it's just sweet. Dunno what all the fuss is about. Just drive the damn thing. :shrug:

[viper-gt]

The only reason I don't drive it is because of the interior.

It gets on my nerves so much I find it impossible top concentrate.

[Antsa]

Those sets were made for the physics in patch P/Q. They understeer too much when used with S/T/U, IMO. I keep meaning to get around to "fixing" them, but it's a slow and somewhat laborious process when I have to do all the testing alone. ;)

And the RAC actually handles great with the latest physics, it used to be all understeer then oversteer, now it's just sweet. Dunno what all the fuss is about. Just drive the damn thing. :shrug:

Sorry, I posted a wrong version. I fixed it. But I still want that everyone tests different tire pressures because those have a huge effect on car's handling and balance in LFS. :D

[JTbo]

RAC is one of most enjoyable rides in LFS, it just need rather good setup and bit control to right foot, it is not super easy to drive as some of LFS cars are.

[ORION]

RAC and FZ50 just highlights the current physics issues better than the other cars.
FZ50 really depends A LOT on the setup and track. On South City I dont even need the Traction control with my setup and its not a problem to drive with keyboard :)

[Becky Rose]

When I chose the RAC as the STCC safety car I spent the evening trying to build as much understeer into the car setup as possible, it needed to be ultra-timid so that I didn't make the foolish mistake of spinning out the 'safety car'. I chose it purely on looks, not on practicality!

My main concern is that i'm rapidly building up a collection of extremely abysmal pb's on LFS World toodling around the various STCC tracks at safety car speeds...

Really, I could be much faster if I tried ! (*gulp*)

I have thrown the car around a little, with my safety car understeering setup, and it is very difficult to hook up lap after lap at 'race' speed without making mistakes. This pretty much rules it out of arrive & crash public server use, people play LFS for fun not for frustration! Although it is rewarding to have completed a lap without error and then coast around a second lap and at each corner say "I did that at race speed in an RAC!".

[Becky Rose]

Fischfix asked for my SC setup, we'll I can't see any wr's being broken, or even any TBO wr's! All the same here they are ! :)

[Captain Slow]

i went through a stage when i used to drive the RAC a little offline, but the thing is it was that hard to master, i never felt confident enough that i could race it on a server and not take everyone out. :D

[sgt.flippy]

I'm going to try the RAC and FZ50 on fern bay club right away!

There, I tried it, wasn't super fast, but I would be able to beat myself in an FXO with the RAC or FZ50 at fern bay. In the FXO it was way easier to get a good time, but I would be able to compete in those two cars. They're very twitchy, but when you don't try to rush yourself, these cars have great acceleration, just ease in and when you're alligned, then hit the throttle hard, during the turn just feather it a bit, maybe give some extra juice to make it slide a bit to counter the understeer, and there ya go.

[P1lot]

tis my favourite car in LFS, I think :D :D

[sgt.flippy]

Now I keep running it around fern bay black, so much fun! Spin out a few times, but nothing severe, I can always continu. Just this one time, in the second chicane, I hit a tyre, and so I slammed into the other tyres, which made me do a complete front flip and let me continu. Although I had to give up after a few turns noticing my suspension went to hell, but it was great :D

[the_angry_angel]

The RAC is a car I'd love to love, but I just can't. Shes like that girl at the back of the room you can just see oozing with charm, but if you try anything that goes beyond her rules, she'll bite and bite you hard. And she'll enjoy it.

In many ways, driving the RAC is like making love to a beautiful woman (apologies for Fast Show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Toni)reference)..

[xaotik]

In many ways, driving the RAC is like making love to a beautiful woman

So you've never driven the RAC, eh? :P
Or did you buy a beautiful woman simulator for 24 pounds? :)

[sgt.flippy]

So you've never driven the RAC, eh? :P

Yes he did, the RAC just doesn't know yet.

(damn 60 seconds again!!)

[Jakg]

Its the slowest of the LRF's, it gets pwned in a straight line by everything, same for corners :schwitz:

[Hyperactive]

Its the slowest of the LRF's, it gets pwned in a straight line by everything, same for corners :schwitz:

Ra has far better acceleration out of corners than the FZ50 which is the main competitor for the Ra. Ra also toasts the FZ50 in starts and the Ra owns the FZ50 with better corner-in abilitis but loses time on topspeed.

FZ50 is the NFS wannabe in LFS :D

[bbman]

Well, you can feel the FZ's heaviness every single moment, it's only party-piece is the power and therefore it's top speed... I think the biggest disadvantage of the RA is that you can't adjust the rear ARBs... And the LX6 has none of these disadvantages, so it smokes both other cars on every track (except Aston, where top speed matters)...

[AndRand]

totally agree.
Ive been using lrf at WErev only and I must say I like rac very much. frankly its the fz50 that is more tail happy than rac - I do not dump it hard so with bit of weight transfer I have perfect control of under-over-steer. And you can feel there is no engine at rear that always drags you back to front :D

as my sig says :) ix6 could be balanced too

[ZORER]

I sometimes have a go with the rac but everytime i have to get myself into serious mode to stop that car spin its rear and front end on seperate ways...ok it is a hard2drive car but imo it should be replaced with a car in same class with an elise.:D

I love fz50 and fxr and xfr and bf1 and all of them...:shrug:

[Jakg]

ok, sod the RAC - the LX6 with a passenger round BL1R is a blast. The Passenger helps to slow it down to everything else can keep up :D (and to give more traction!)

[Tube]

RAC and FZ50 just highlights the current physics issues better than the other cars.

I don't believe this for a second. Both, FZ50 and RAC can be controlled perfectly. We had great, close races with them on a high level.
RAC is just one of the cars which you cannot force beyond all bounds, unlike the noob cars like BF1 which basically drive for you and all you have to do is get the turn entrance right.

[sinbad]

Nothing wrong with them in my opinion. We had some great races in them in the Roadsport Summer Cup. The RAC is very docile once you realise its limitations. Whilst it does certainly like to point with the front and drift with the rear, it's definitely not "snappy" and once you're prepared for how it behaves, which isn't really unusual for a car of that type, you'll never spin it.

[DeKo]

you need to know the track very very well with the RAC to keep it in check. knowing where every bump is, every kerb which would unsettle the car is crucial, and even lifting just a tiny bit off the throttle going over these helps enormously to keep it pointing in the right dirongo.

[Marty502]

I don't believe this for a second. Both, FZ50 and RAC can be controlled perfectly. We had great, close races with them on a high level.
RAC is just one of the cars which you cannot force beyond all bounds, unlike the noob cars like BF1 which basically drive for you and all you have to do is get the turn entrance right.

"noob cars like BF1"

What other cars would you rate as easy to drive? I'm intrigued. :nod:

[bbman]

Well, you'll have to drive the BF1 like a newbie: Throw the rear end around and let the TC sort the mess out... You don't believe me? Look at some WR-laps and be astonished how much they slide around... Aston GT is a good example, and I'm sure it's even worse at South City...

[ajp71]

I like the RAC except for the fact it's turbo charged.

[Dajmin]

Personally I love the RAC. It's an absolute nightmare to control, and that's why :) No roll bar on the back is nasty, and that turbo can spin you before you even realise it's kicked in.

Great fun :)

[deggis]

I don't believe this for a second. Both, FZ50 and RAC can be controlled perfectly. We had great, close races with them on a high level.
I didn't say it couldn't be driven under control but it's the same thing as sticking spikes to your nose, it's not impossible but it's definately painful. LX6 was same way total pain in the ass before April patch, maybe FZ50 and RAC just requires another tyre physics patch before you can drive them in a more sophisticated way.

[JTbo]

Bad thread, made me to test RAC, 2 hours wasted, nooo, it was real fun, but I could not find anyone who would like to race RAC at Blackwood :shrug:

Then I made setup and drove 1:23.020, last time I drove LFS at April, that is 6 months ago, back then I did not know how to setup car, but now I know some basics and how to calculate proper dampers and springs, etc, modding is good thing :D

Here (http://www.janiervast.com/lfs/index.php?dir=setups/) is my setup, I guess it is not best possible, but I'm curious to know how much faster fast guys can go with it?

One thing that was disturbing me was that if I keep tire pressure very low, car goes much better and faster, like sidewalls would grip more than tire tread?

[DaveWS]

How come nobody in this thread is having a go at this? (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14431)

[JTbo]

How come nobody in this thread is having a go at this? (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14431)

I don't like to drive with bad setups, I know it is just me, but I don't see point in bad setup racing :shy:

[DaveWS]

Thats why its called a "challenge". ;)

[Racer Y]

I like the RAC. It's too bad there aren't more servers running the road car class. Yeah it is a little hard to drive even with the latest patches. but still
I think it's alot more fun than FOXes or the GTR cars. But apparently most other people don't look at it that way.:shrug:

I dunno how the real version handles, but the one in the game seems to handle more like a car bigger than it really is. It handles more like a 70's Camaro or something. At least thats what it sorta reminds me of espescailly when cornering. It also seems to get really light when it gets going really fast. Like if it had wings, it would come off the ground.
Personally, I think the FZ 50 is a lot harder to drive than the RAC. I mean ALOT harder. That car drives more like a .. a .. Freight Train?
I dunno it could be because the FZR is so easy to use that the shock of the plain ol FZ's handling is overwhelming and makes the car even that much harder to use.

[Glenn67]

I think the FZ 50 is a lot harder to drive than the RAC. I mean ALOT harder.

I find the FZ5 ALOT easier than the RAC :shrug: I guess at the end of the day it comes down to driver perception. If they feel they have a connection with the car they do well in it, if not they get frustrated :tilt:

[frokki]

I just dont like its powerband. Otherwise it rocks!
..even with Dave's silly challenge setup

[Robster230]

I love it! me and a mate race it against each other all the time.. no one else ever joins the server though lol!