Help Kev Get a World Record! (hahahaha)

[thisnameistaken]

As some of you may be aware, the fact that I'm not very good at LFS has become something of a running joke around here (which I don't really mind), but this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14153) made me decide to try my very best (which in the past hasn't been anything like good enough ;)) to drive a car super-duper fast like the super-duper fast guys do.

I decided to concentrate on one combo for the night and try to get within a second of the world record. I get bored easily so I picked the LX4 at SO Long to keep my concentration up, and I did close to 100 laps. My best time was a 1:51.150, which is exactly 1.5 seconds off the current WR - not bad at all for me. :thumb:

So I decided to change my goal a bit - I'm going to try to beat the current world record. *cue riotous laughter* So obviously I'm going to need some (lots of) help (possibly psychiatric), and if any of you are feeling kind or bored enough, this is how you can help (in ascending order of helpfulness):

1) Watch lap three of the attached replay and tell me where you think I'm losing this 1.5 seconds. Is there something obviously bad about the way I'm driving? Are there corners that I drive especially badly? When comparing my lap to the WR at LFSWorld I'm losing pretty much the same amount of time in each sector, so I think it must be a general bad driving thing.

2) Try the attached setup and tell me if/why it's not good enough - it's almost the same as the SO1R set at SetupField credited to Biohazard. I think I'm pretty happy with the balance of the car, but the only thing I really need to preserve is the stability when turning in and coming off the brakes - I'm useless at dealing with cars that want to change ends when turning and braking.

3) Explain how I can use replay analysers to work these things out for myself. I've got F1PerfView and AnalyseForSpeed installed, but I haven't a clue how to use any of this data to improve my lap or my setup. This would be especially helpful - I suppose it's like the teaching the man to fish thing (I've always been crap at fishing too, but I'm not all that desperate to improve my fishing abilities, so please disregard the fishing proverb analogy).

Any help much appreciated!

[Leprekaun]

Kev, dont pay so much attention to people who have WRs. I mean, sure its cool, but the best way to earn a reputation is through hard racing and winning races of all kinds (Sprint and Endurance). WRs mean nothing compared to these things.

[rc10racer]

Well i gave it a try and only could do a 1.51.47 (same set as Kev's) with no practice at all even lfsworld say i have no pb or laps done on this combo so not

EDIT: beat that time by a bit 1.50.74

[Infiniti]

haha poor kev, maybe ill try same set combo you have there see what I can get? Then compare. :thumb:

[rc10racer]

I see when you are braking you lock the front right alot of the time, but with the same setup i do not lock up any wheels. The only thing i can say is try adding a little throttle to help keep the car more stable underbraking and it also helps locking up the wheels

The thing that is slowing you down the most is you are going to fast into some corner and going wide on the exit, the most common thing in lfs that has stuck to me is slow in fast out, easier to control the car and does not more correcting with the wheel

[Shotglass]

we should do a kev aid concert to raise some money with which we can buy him lessons with that scottish lady they had on top gear last season

[rc10racer]

we should do a kev aid concert to raise some money with which we can buy him lessons with that scottish lady they had on top gear last season

She was not scottish she was german and a bloody good driver TBH for a woman :razz:

[dave4002000]

the most common thing in lfs that has stuck to me is slow in fast out

yea, that is one of the best things to learn in real life or in sims...going into a corner slower will allow you get back on the gas earlier in the turn. Also try to be as smooth as you can...a squealing(sliding) tire is slower than one that is not.

[Shotglass]

She was not scottish she was german and a bloody good driver TBH for a woman :razz:

im not talking about sabine

[[RCG]Boosted]

yea, that is one of the best things to learn in real life or in sims...going into a corner slower will allow you get back on the gas earlier in the turn. Also try to be as smooth as you can...a squealing(sliding) tire is slower than one that is not.
well when u drive on the edge of the maximum grip, ur tires will squeal :)
squealing doesnt mean directly u lose grip :)

[AndroidXP]

3) Explain how I can use replay analysers to work these things out for myself. I've got F1PerfView and AnalyseForSpeed installed, but I haven't a clue how to use any of this data to improve my lap or my setup. This would be especially helpful - I suppose it's like the teaching the man to fish thing (I've always been crap at fishing too, but I'm not all that desperate to improve my fishing abilities, so please disregard the fishing proverb analogy).Don't miss out on that one!

First, open and view the replay in LFS, then in the lap before the fastest one, hit ESC and choose "Output lap data". Give it a name and it will be placed in <LFS>/data/raf. Continue to watch the fastest lap (also works in fast forward mode). Do this for both the WR and your best lap (two raf files).

Then, in AFS go to File > Open, and select both these raf files - they're now both loaded into AFS. Now you can start (or stop) the "replay" of the driving lines with "S", slow down (or single-frame back) with "A" and speed up (or single-frame forward) with "D".

In AFS you can exactly compare your racing line, speed, braking-/entry points, throttle/brake input, etc. to that of the WR. Watching this makes it really obvious where you're losing time - kinda like using Ghostcar but not ingame and with more info available. One thing you'll probably notice, is that the WR holders seem to release the brake relatively early (shortly after turning in), then they coast towards apex, and even before reaching apex they start to smoothly apply throttle, having already 100% throttle at or slightly before apex. What also happens to me is, that I "overbrake" a corner, simply braking too long and getting too slow, whereas coasting would've easily get me through the corner quite a few km/h faster.

[axus]

You can give my South City Long Rev set a spin. I'm about .7 of a second of the Long Rev WR with it and I'm sure I'd be able to get more out of it. Hope it helps. :)

[Hyperactive]

I just did some 40 odd laps (LX4@SO4) and my best is 1:51.44. So if Kev is aiming to get a wr, then I'm aiming to beat Kev. Only 1:51.44 - 1:51.150 = 0.29 to go :p

I need more practise... :schwitz:

[Gentlefoot]

Good thread this.

I’m in much the same boat as Kev. 1.5 seconds seems to be as close as I can get to most WRs (apart from the short courses). One of my problems is that I’m a creature of habit. Once I’ve done a lot of laps on a circuit it’s hard for me to adjust my lines to get quicker. This slows my learning process quite a lot. Like Kev, I seem to lose the same amount of time in all sectors.

I’ve used AFS and F1PerfView quite a bit and what I notice is that the really fast blokes carry more speed to apexes than me. I’m usually just as fast mid corner and exit but I often lose time on entry. If I try to brake later or carry more speed to the apex it often results in me losing speed at exit.

These things seem to be what’s holding me back but I haven’t given up trying to get onto top level pace and I do seem to be getting a little faster at least.

I watch this thread with interest.

[traxxion]

I’m usually just as fast mid corner and exit but I often lose time on entry.

Same here.

I'm almost certain this has to do with car balance. If your car is well balanced while turning in, it's more likely you'll get through the turn without sliding and thus with a higher speed.

I think the feeling for the right car balance comes with practise, but it also has a lot to do with talent. Some people are just better in "feeling" what is the best throttle-brake-steering angle-combination (because that is what it comes down to basically!!) than others.

Imo I'll never get there, but again, pure practise has made me improve my turn-in speed quite a lot.

[Jakg]

Tips

right then - to aggressive on the brakes, power earlier (esp T2). More aggressive through the chicane. Tight corner down to the car park. Your braking to late and need to brake earlier to have more control and aim for power before the Apex. Going up to the motorway you tapped the wall which DOES slow you down! Your understeering too much at the u-turn after the flyover, turn in more!
The WR gets full throttle round the first bend, you can too.

Telemetry

I've included the RAF files of your lap and the WR lap for you to look at, and i've looked and compared lines (in the zips). An image of what F1PerfView says is included (if you want to compare your lines then use Analyze for Speed) of it both in MPH or KPH because i forgot to change it to MPH the first time. As you'd expect your minimum, maximum and average speeds are all slightly lower than his. His minimum revs is 6,000, about 500 more than yours, and his maximum revs are 10,000, while you go 700 higher. He (as you'd expect) steers, and brakes, less than you. He makes 4 less shifts than you and drives 2.499 miles, 0.007 less than you (lines are out then!).

Lines

The WR bloke starts more to the left side than you do. He takes the first bend (wont call it the first corner as it should be full throttle) flat out, and much tighter (ie he goes on the rumble strips. He takes it right to the wall (you don't need to go that extreme, mind), but you go into the middle of the track for no reason, while he stays on the outside until he turns in. You get on the power sooner but the line was wrong and you gain no advantage. 90 Degree bend, one of my least favourite corners, need to make it less tight, although your getting on the power sooner at least. Same for the next (and most) corner, you brake that bit later, and get on the power that bit sooner, because you are focusing on giving it power rather than the line you take. Chicane - you enter it too wide, and don't flow out to the edge after it. On the next corner you could keep it tighter. Exit of the SO1 Chicane, which for you is a hairpin, you need to brake earlier, and get on the power sooner, and try to kiss the Apex, good line though, just in the wrong place, this corner has lost you a fair bit of time. Because of the tap on the wall he's pulling away from you on the motorway, at the u-turn at the end everythings good, except you need to kiss the apex, as your having to avoid the wall which is slowing you down.

Hope this helps!

[Niels Heusinkveld]

Do you find it 'unnatural' now that you're actually fast? The WR laps I have seen made me frown :pillepall . The way the cars are driven seems odd. And of course I blame my lack of speed on alledged physics unrealism.. :)

[TagForce]

Do you find it 'unnatural' now that you're actually fast? The WR laps I have seen made me frown :pillepall . The way the cars are driven seems odd. And of course I blame my lack of speed on alledged physics unrealism.. :)

That's the difference between an alien, and a regular fast guy...

The regular guy will drive the car to its realistic limit, assuming the physics will be realistic and as such would seriously slow you down when you drive unrealistically.

The alien will drive to the limits of the physics engine, cutting corners and jumping kerbs which would kill you in real life.

[Hyperactive]

I just looked at my bp's raf output and noticed that Kev and Paps have the throttling values around 65% / 25% / 10% (full/between/none) and I have basically 71% / 29% / 0%. Also noticed a lot different things but I need to get some more laps. 1:50 should be doable once I get my lines sorted :p

PS. TagForce. I thought the average driver drives the car as fast he can while the alien drives the car as fast as the car can go ;)

EDIT: new pb: 1:51.16. Still 0.01 to go to beat Kev... And I just can't go faster :(

[traxxion]

That's the difference between an alien, and a regular fast guy...

The regular guy will drive the car to its realistic limit, assuming the physics will be realistic and as such would seriously slow you down when you drive unrealistically.

The alien will drive to the limits of the physics engine, cutting corners and jumping kerbs which would kill you in real life.Wooaaah, now that's well put man!

[Thoma]

If your using a clutch pedal. Is it possible to 'Heel and toe' for the brakes where you gotta give it a bit of gas?

That could be handy for you.

Sorry if you already do that and this post is useless :P

[OmarA]

This is really interesting, I've had a quick go but don't have anything much yet, still trying to handle the first bend and the downhill left before the motorway :s

I definitely agree with maximising the exit, I find it's one simple thing to focus on when learning tracks that gives a lot of benefit.

I think that Nigel Mansell used to concentrate on his corner entry, with the view that if it is correct then the rest of the corner will follow. It's definitely worked for me in the past tho, generally I'll enter a corner a little fast by mistake, but somehow it tucks into the apex a little better and I've learnt a new line :)

[RacingSimFan]

I can't really do that because I'm using a clutch pedal and braking with my right foot.

I'm afraid thats another way you're losing time to the 'aliens'. Again on the principle of 'to hell with realism', every car becomes like an F1 in LFS. Left foot braking and auto-clutched shifting are a given for most if not all of those WR times.

I would love to heel-and-toe and use an H-pattern shifter but I never do because I know the guys pulling away from me ahead are LFB'ing and flicking a paddle.

[biggie]

Hi Kev, hilarious thread :D

Well, I'd like to make a little contribution to you in terms of setups. I just downloaded the LX4 SO3 set from setupfield and created my own SO4 set out of it.
So far this set has done 1:49.54 HLVC (that lap is actually crap :nod:, I had splits for 1:49.1x) and it is quite easy to control. Somehow the fastest way to drive it is just to drift a little bit into the turns (that's kind of a phenomenon with the S2 physics, it even works on the BF1). However this is quite hard to pull off consistently and I can't really expect you to copy that technique :D But I think you might find this set has its place.

Keep practising and I hope you'll succeed in your undertaking. I must say you chose quite a tough combo to begin with though :/

[Hyperactive]

Woo! I'm a tiny bit faster than somebody! ;)

After few more laps (I haven't hotlapped all day, mind you :p) I got a 1:51:03 and 1:51:03 with splits for a mid-1:50. I guess with more effort I could do a low 1:50 but those 1:49s seems very far away atm.

Replay and set attached. The set is Axus' set (I'm not sure though :D) with some braking tweaks. Now, gotta go try that 1:50... I'll be back in few months ;)

(sorry for hijacking your thread :))

[Primoz]

Didn't read the whole thread but practising a lot at LX4 SO4 (LXCC first combo) it's not that easy. The time is quite good. But you must know one thing. The WR is super duper duper fast. That time is just amazing. And i've seen Alles break his own WR in race by almost half a second. I have NO idea how that guy manages to be so fast :) I'm lucky he's my teammate for LXCC :razz:

[J.B.]

I try to drive like that, but it's hard to focus sometimes when I've got people coming in and asking me questions and traffic outside making lots of noise. :razz:


Yes, yes! The wretched creatures! And don't get me started on cats...

Interesting thread BTW.

[KiDCoDEa]

just accept there are people better, faster and sexier than you.

makes life easier and gives you more time to enjoy pizza.

[AndroidXP]

Mmmm pizza :yummy:

[mrodgers]

Ok, it is time for me to contribute to this thread.

I like mushrooms on my pizza :D !!!

Seriously, spam isn't the reason I posted. Hmm, spam on pizza? EEEeeewwwww!

Kev, yeah, remember back in the CRC with the S2 demo? Me and you trying to figure out the rear wheel drives. Guess we figured them out to an extent, eh? :thumb:

My contribution to your cause, look ahead, far ahead, as far as you can see. Subconciously, you will go where you look. Looking at the apex to hit the perfect apex won't get you very far, just to the apex. Look way up ahead, to the straight to where you want to be, not where you are going. This is how to hit the corners right. This is my number 2 rule when I'm on the track, and the one I probably break the most. (Number 1 of course is do everything I can not to take someone else out.)

Folks have seen me post this in other threads, especially the cockpit vs. wheel view threads. Folks like Forbin also know this from riding motorcycles. It is said when riding, if you want to avoid the pothole in the road, and you look at it to make sure you are going to miss it, 90% of the time you will hit it, exactly what you were trying not to do.

If you are looking through the corner out at where you want to be at exit, your car will go there with a perfect exit and lineup for the straight. Well then, how are you hitting the apex you ask? Well, way before you reach the corner, you are concentrating on that apex with looking far ahead before you are there. It takes some concentration to do this at first. On a motorcycle, it is easy for me as it has my full attention. In LFS or other PC racing, it isn't as easy for me as my mind will eventually wander, especially at the tracks I'm most comfortable with.

I type this not just for Kev, but this is also an excellent post for new racers as well as many of the other comments from folks. After all, Kev is usually faster than I am, why would I want to help him be even faster, hehe :razz: .

Good Luck with the PB Kev.

[Bawbag]

Folks like Forbin also know this from riding motorcycles. It is said when riding, if you want to avoid the pothole in the road, and you look at it to make sure you are going to miss it, 90% of the time you will hit it, exactly what you were trying not to do.




Wow, funny, all the pot holes i've hit are the ones that I DIDN'T see, the ones I saw I drove around....:pillepall I fail to see your logic and Kev has been playing LFS for to long IMO for him just to change where he looks in order to get round a corner.

Anyway, Glad to see your aiming for a hard WR Kev, I had a go of Biggies set round here and it is very slippery and locks up alot, a set you really gotta get used to and as he said, slide the car into the corner which to get a full lap doing this is pretty hard, especcially round south city.

So I had a go at my own set I made a long time ago and made it a bit better and easier to drive so if you want Kev you can have a go of this. :)

Ps. I had a 50.35 with it but splits for a 49 something before I gave up. :razz:

Good luck. :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Yeah, I'm completely useless with Biggie's setup too. The brake settings were insane (:p) and the fronts wouldn't go up to temp from normal driving either :tilt:

[Slartibartfast]

OK, I'm not specifically quick. But this is what has helped me:

I do already blip the throttle with my heel when downshifting (although I think I was getting a bit lazy with it in that replay), but I think what Jean Luc Pickard was suggesting was holding a little bit of throttle constantly while braking to stabilise the car (I guess it puts load the diff? Is that what the benefit is? Anyone?). But that would be pretty hard to do with one foot.

I'm not real slick with the mechanics, but it helps me, a left foot braker. I think it has to do with keeping the car level at turn in. The car dives less. The rear steps out less. Stays more tucked and ready for throttle application.

That being said, the most interesting thing to me in this thread is that many people mentioned not overbraking. Coming off the brakes earlier and coasting at the limit to apex. I certainly overbrake. Also, if that's the goal, maybe right foot braking is less of an issue. A little more rear rebound and off you go. Remember that right - right second gear section of Monza in GPL? That was where everyone lost time. The setup to the second right was sooooo critical. Took me years to get just the right entry speed and balance. I guess all corners are like that to some extent.

Getting to the right side of your head is also very, very important. After all the practice with techniques and balance and lines you should feel it coming naturally. Like some part of your consciousness turns off. I know I'm in the 'zone' when everything slows down. I quit struggling and each move flows effortlessly from the last and into the next. The whole lap is a continuous motion. Inhale whilst braking, exhale whilst throttling. Looking far ahead is both a prerequisite and symptom of being in that state. When I'm in the zone, turn in and throttle amount are all I am aware of. It's fuzzy and mushy and I surge in a rhythmic pulse dictated by the track. (Whatever that means.)

Two bits for you - Some magazine people sat someone (Stirling Moss?) down in a hotel by a track (Watkins Glen?). He sat in a chair and did four imaginary laps at the track after the day's sessions. He held an imaginary wheel and made noises with his mouth. Feet going like crazy he did 4 or 5 laps within 4/10ths of his actual lap times. It's all in the head, eh?

Ayrton Senna used to quote one of his early karting coaches. "Have you ever entered a corner and thought, 'Oh no, this time I have done it. I've gone in too fast and I am going to go off.' But some how you make it through? That is quick."

He amazed me and the world when he drove like that. Because he really did. Remember Shoey at Hungaroring in 1998? Chasing after Hill for 20 laps at the ragged edge to catch him in the pits? Everyone was up in arms saying what a brilliant drive it was. Only four years had passed and they couldn't seem to remember that Senna drove that way as a matter of course.

With Mansell right on his ass. :)

[evilgeek]

Wow, funny, all the pot holes i've hit are the ones that I DIDN'T see, the ones I saw I drove around....:pillepall I fail to see your logic and Kev has been playing LFS for to long IMO for him just to change where he looks in order to get round a corner.


nah m8. it's good advice and it's often given to ski and bike racers. look where you want to go, not where you don't want to go. when things are happening too fast to think simple strategies like this are actually very helpful.

[Bawbag]

Yea, The way I understood it was you were never to look at the object your are avoiding, but I understand your supposed to LOOK at it then look at where you wanna go.

On another note, I generally don't think about what I want to be doing next, as by the time you think about it the LX will have spun on you, all I think about really is braking points, the rest just happens, no time to think, just reactions...I think anyway. :tilt:

[Renku]

The WR is super duper duper fast. That time is just amazing.I can agree that 1:49.650 is fast, but nowhere near super duper. There is at least 1 second in reserve for this combo, patch Q WR was 1:48.8 smth IIRC. Of course I can't do it, I'm happy if I can do 1:50 again, but that doesn't mean that others can't.

[Slartibartfast]

In ski and snowboard instruction we say "look at the hole". Keeps people alive and with working limbs. Really. Really. In ski and snowbaord and skateboard racing, we are always looking ahead as many gates/cones as possible. It's a steadfast rule.

It's simple with speed. At 60mph, if you are looking 3 feet in front of you, how much time do you have to prepare for what's coming up? Look 200 feet ahead and your chances of reacting in time are much better. Someone mentioned anticipation. Steering and braking and throttling *before* you get into trouble. Looking ahead goes a long way down that road.

[AndroidXP]

Meh, improved to 1:50.27

But those darn 1:49 don't want to fall :mad: :D

[Jonesy_]

I think anyway. :tilt:

Now, thats all lies! :nod:

[5th Earth]

My two small denominations of currency:

I'm not really a fast driver, so maybe this is poor advice. But if I had to single out one thing as being all-important in racing, it's the way you stop braking when entering a corner. It's that moment that controls everything else in the corner. IMHO, the perfect racing line follows naturally from the perfect brake release. When you start braking is trivial--late braking vs. (reasonably) early braking is a matter of milliseconds for lap times--but if you stop braking at the wrong time, or do it too suddenly or slowly, it screws up the entire corner, and no amount of throttle and steering control will help you.

[biggie]

four lousy hundredths. :banghead:


Oh and Kev, this set feels a lot better (based on Bawbag's set but I changed it quite a bit). It's more stable and you can drift it even more safely than you could my old set. :x

[Goop]

I'm learning heel-toe atm, too... and I'm pretty shite at it :D I've always left-foot braked, so it's a matter of reteaching my muscles/reflexes I s'pose. One thing I'm trying, that you may have use for... once you start to master a combination, look for places where you can left-foot brake. This of course frees up your right foot to ride/dab the accelerator under brakes (tho I hope to get better at doing this with right-foot braking).

I'm not real fast either, but I find if I visualize the perfect entry, line and exit-speed for the following corner, I tend to do quite a bit better :tilt:

Good luck anyhow :cyclops:

[th84]

Help Kev Get a World Record!


:rofl:

Dont you dare go out and get fast on me kev, I dont wanna be the only one that still suck's!

Good luck dude!! :thumb: (sorry I have no advice or anything usefull for you, as I said.. I suck)

[KiDCoDEa]

drink tabasco. it will make u super hot on the track.

[Hyperactive]

...
One run got me a 1:50.74,

And beaten :p
(I used biggie's 2nd set. If I am really diligent today I might get a high 1:49 for you)

EDI: or maybe not..

[biggie]

@Kev: Okay, so I've had some fun today doing an analysis of our two laps. It's really interesting to fathom where the difference in laptime comes from, but I think I've learned something from that too.

The result can be viewed here:

Kev/biggie lap comparison and analysis (http://www.newfriends24.de/LFS/kev/kev.htm)

(oh and, please don't let yourself be distracted by the domain, I often use my domain + webspace for some entirely unrelated stuff :))

I hope it gives you some insight into what you're doing wrong. Notice how often I've diagnosed you with "running-wide-itis", so you might wanna change your driving style or setup (I tend to work it out with my setups :)) a bit to become ultimately faster. It seems to me there's too much understeer in your old set and that you could go much faster with a more responsive set.

However, feel free to draw your own conclusions. This is just MY interpretation/analysis, you might see things differently.

[Blackout]

Nice presentation you got there! Got to try this combo myself and see what happens :P

[biggie]

Nice presentation you got there! Got to try this combo myself and see what happens :P

:hbomb:

:ambulance

:nurse:

:D

[Blackout]

Whaat? It's not like I was trying to take all the cookies and milk of the world is it? Don't worry :shy:

[biggie]

Whaat? It's not like I was trying to take all the cookies and milk of the world is it? Don't worry :shy:

Uh... I was implying a crash... of course I was being terribly serious.

Btw. I don't mind you taking my cookies, you can also have all the milk you want :D

[Shotglass]

[quote=biggie;247864The result can be viewed here:

Kev/biggie lap comparison and analysis (http://www.newfriends24.de/LFS/kev/kev.htm)[/quote]

wow i really should start to use afs more or rather at all
btw do you talk about yourself in 3rd person often ? and would you mind if i refer to you as julius from now on ?

[George Kuyumji]

Now I have a question which has nothing to do with Kev, but somebody maybe could answer this by the fly in this Thread....

What is when S3 gets released, and Physics have been updated, are all the WR resetted. How much did the laptimes gain/lose when going from S1 to S2?

[Hyperactive]

Now I have a question which has nothing to do with Kev, but somebody maybe could answer this by the fly in this Thread....

What is when S3 gets released, and Physics have been updated, are all the WR resetted. How much did the laptimes gain/lose when going from S1 to S2?

WRs are resetted every time when an incompatible patch is released.

[Gentlefoot]

I am still turning in too early (a bad habit I have) at nearly every corner, and I'm still a bit scared of bumps on the exit (anybody have any setup advice? Rear rebound? Rear ARB?). And I'm not apexing properly on a lot of corners. This seems to be my biggest problem and I think it will be the hardest thing to fix, but I will try!


Setup for bumps and kerbs is all about the relationship between front bump and rear bump, front rebound and rear rebound. Do some experimentation and you'll see what I mean. I can get my sets to understeer or oversteer over bumps depending on what I need. Usually I set the car to understeer very slightly over kerbs.

[AndroidXP]

While Biggie's analysis is ofcourse 100% correct, there's so much more than knowing the theory. From that analysis you can mainly learn a) smoother/different lines and b) early on the throttle.

However, trying to copy the "start throttle here" points is complete nonsense. For the early throttle to work, you have to set the car into the corner in a very specific way - I'm sure that's second nature for Biggie, but not for us struggling with getting below 1:50.

The thing is, if you go on the throttle the car starts to understeer, which means you should be in an oversteer situation when starting to apply throttle to make up for it. If you're not oversteering before the early accelleration, this will mostly result in a unpleasant smack to the wall, or extremely slow exit if we were able to prevent the former.
Then for some corners, not enough throttle is killer, especially after the first split. In that double 90° you need to apply throttle so you don't waste time, but if not enough, you will understeer and go extremely slow, or too much and you'll oversteer all over the place, in both cases messing up the entry through the left-right combo. What you need is just enough throttle to keep you in a slight oversteer state, so you're fast AND you make the corner.

If you watch Biggie's replay you'll see that he is slightly oversteering BEFORE each corner, keeping that oversteer through the corner and slowly going back to normal on corner exit. So if you want to be fast in Biggie's throttle-early way, then the first thing to learn is reliably getting in the correct state on corner ENTRY. You always hear corner exit is the most important, and it is speed-wise, but from the technique point of view corner entry is much more vital, as a sucky and unprepared corner entry prohibits a good corner exit.

The only thing left that I notice when I'm driving, is that I often steer too much and too long. During apex/corner exit, the only active steering should be done by your right foot. This is especially apparent if you understeer a bit, making the corner relatively nice up until apex, where you start unwinding the wheel and... suddenly the fronts start to grip. We all know the result from that.

[Hyperactive]

...
You are a complete shit. :p I will beat you!
...
I have some replays to show you after you upload your latest :smileypul

[z3r0c00l]

The slight oversteer is present, well, more neutral steer where possible, throughout the entire corner with the very best drivers, this is because tyres develop their maximum traction at roughly a 10% slip angle (huge generalisation alert), so if you want to get the maximum cornering and acceleration/braking force from them, you have to slip them ever so slightly all the time you're changing speed/direction.

This looks like "floating/oversteering" round the corner, but you will probably find the slip is roughly equal on all four wheels, and the car doesn't look like it's pointing where it should be, but actually it maximises the G forces available from the car. After a while driving like this, it feels exactly right though, and anything else looks like underworking the tyres.

You will find that Biggie's traction circle is nigh on perfect, especially with the car being set up as well as it always is.

http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/circle.gif

[Gentlefoot]

I will, but could you maybe give me a couple of pointers - how those settings relate and what they'll do? I can imagine it would be hard to diagnose setup problems while I'm busy trying to avoid walls and stuff, so any guidelines you might have would really help.



It's hard because it depends what your settings are to start with. But I'll try. If you are experiencing oversteer when you touch the kerbs you can try adding front bump, rebound or both. If that doesn't help or you lose too much front end grip then try reducing the amount of rear bump/rebound. But remember, reducing rear rebound has the same effect as adding front bump, well kinda anyway. It reduces the amount of lift off oversteer.

Basically you want the front to understeer slightly over kerbs so you can keep your lines nice and clean. So it's transient settings you need to work on, i.e. dampers. So you need a bit more damping at the front than at the rear most of the time.

However, I have been in situations where increasing rear rebound has actually had the opposite to expected effect and reduced power on oversteer (RWD ofcourse). This was probably because the car was under damped at the back to start with.

[Fetzo]

great analysis, biggie! enjoyed reading it.

[biggie]

wow i really should start to use afs more or rather at all
btw do you talk about yourself in 3rd person often ? and would you mind if i refer to you as julius from now on ?

It would seem you haven't heard about it yet, but that was the other half of my split personality writing the article. The other (biggie-) half and the author half are only barely acquainted. Hope that explains why the author half used the third person perspective. Of course this must be the biggie half writing at this post at the moment.

Biggie... I am amazed - thank you so much for this! I didn't realise quite how much analysis could be done using Analyse for Speed (http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=analysers). I'll reply to a few points, but really, I am so pleased that you 1) Showed me such a comprehensive comparison of our laps. That really is amazing. And 2) Showed me how much information can be taken using this application. This is exactly the sort of feedback I was hoping for when I started this thread, and I couldn't hope for a better-qualified respondent than yourself. I've saved your analysis page offline in case it ever disappears because it's just sheer racing technique awesomeness. Thank you again!
[...]
It really blew me away. I've looked at it but I didn't realise how closely you could analyse each corner. I am quite dumbfounded by it all.

You're welcome! I didn't quite anticipate that kind "impact" on you but I'm glad it turned out to be like this :D
I really liked doing it though, and it even taught me something too. I think it was really a helpful and efficient way to show you some of the theories about the ideal line which would have been hard to express with words.
AFS is really an awesome tool. It can really help in getting an understanding for what's fast and what isn't. Split times can be totally inconclusive sometimes... however, looking at the speedo at the apex will give you a good indication of how you're doing even WHILE you're still racing.

I'm beginning to think I just don't react fast enough to be able to make a consistent corner entry each time.

It's not so much about reaction, most of it is anticipation, improvisation talent (when you deviate from your usual line) and a some kind of... let me call it... "mental connection" to the car. Pushing a sim car to its limits can only work well if you're not bothered by making control inputs and how they affect the virtual car. You should be perfectly familiar with the perception of speed and have an understanding of the current state your car is in (weight transfer, tire slip, etc.).
Talking about myself, when I've been driving for some time it's almost as if I'm not turning a wheel anymore, as if I'm not pressing the pedals anymore... I'm ONE with the car and I've learned to anticipate what it'll do next, so I can catch slides even before they occur. It also works a lot in combination with sound.
That's the point when you can REALLY start to push the limits - as opposed to when you have the feeling of having to fight your car. If that's the case, you're more preoccupied with the techiques of driving itself rather than concentrating on the essentials of driving fast. Could I take this corner a little faster? Could I brake a little later? Where would it be smart to back off a little to gain a bigger advantage at a later part of the track? It's all those little nuances you only have time to think about when driving itself doesn't bother you too much.
That's also why I spend a great deal of time making a setup pleasant to me, so that I don't have to concentrate on fighting the deficiencies of my setup all the time.

The rest of sector one and the chicane / uphill to the left-hander is especially valuable to me, because that's the part of the circuit I am most diappointed with. I always feel like I lose time there. But my biggest problem is maintaining speed through the final left-hand turn onto the "long bend". I release the accelerator because if I don't, I end up in the wall on the outside due to the bump on the exit. This is the most difficult part of the lap for me.

I know what you mean, that corner is really tricky because of the bumps and the following part. It's necessary to turn quite hard while driving over a few nasty bumps and this sometimes just exceeds the rear right tire grip. However, you should try to focus on what I demonstrated in my analysis. Try to keep step on the throttle as early as possible and STAY on it. That means you'll have to take a relatively straight line not to lose the rear end. The "long bend" and the following straight are essential for good lap times, so you should adjust your lines according to it.


I think my clutch might be the advantage here. My tyre pressures are very low - lower than yours - but I do shift up quickly. It's interesting to see that this difference is visible under analysis. I also have slightly more aggressive diff. settings (I think 50% power compared to your 37% power - it's a bit too late to check at the moment), but I don't know if that makes much of a difference. I'm not very technically-minded.

Might be. I'm not so sure myself, you also took a slightly different line. Still, the lower tire pressures should ultimately make you SLOWER on the straight, not faster. So it's quite likely that the clutch has a part in it.


1) I knew I was on a fast lap, and didn't want to mess up the final corner. "PB Split Syndrome" in full effect!

I know that all too well. I remember a time back in S1 when I was fighting to enter new seconds with the RB4. On SO4 I remember doing each and every time from 1:57.1x down to 1:57.00 (some even several times), but never could get a 1:56.xx - even though I had splits for 1:56.7x. Grr....


2) I have had trouble with this corner. If I take it any tighter I worry about putting wheels on the blue/white striped kerb, which is slippery and causes oversteer. This leads to me having to accelerate later because my line is wider, and I have to avoid the wall on the exit. It's a bit hard to line this corner up because I'm in right-hand drive mode (I can't do left-hand drive - it's too weird for me).

You should really try my new set again. Because of your low pressures and your relatively low camber settings, the tires deform quite a lot during cornering. You should aim for keeping the contact patch even during the corner. Imo, you're clearly running too little camber. More camber helps you deal with extreme situations a little when the car is "tilted" even more because of clipping a curb. You can think of driving over inside curbs as adding "more positive camber to the outside wheels".



Overall: Sector one, in my opinion, you are overdriving the car. Yes it's funny that I should say that because you're clearly still in control, but it looks completely insane. From the first split I think I'm being too cautious because I know I have a good first split (for me).
[...]
See, I would've described it as "driving like a complete lunatic". I don't think his car is ever pointing in the right direction during the first sector, and he's still taking better lines than me. :shrug:

Let me quote this:
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
You have to get kind of outta control. But just barely. That's the so called limit :thumb:
If you observe closely, my "drifting" or sliding in the first split is never excessive and doesn't cause me to lose speed. In fact that's just the limit of traction which looks (and sounds) like I was sliding and losing time, which I am not.
The "slide" in approach to the 2nd 90° right hander just before the end of split one is used to 1.) decrease speed progressively 2.) keep the weight shifted in a proper way not to overload the front tires 3.) be able to position the car precisely for acceleration out of the corner.
That's the big advantage of RWD's, you can steer them quite nicely with the throttle. I suppose you could do okay without this technique, but I'm sure you'd need quite a different setup and would still be a little slower overall.
I may add what were my initial thoughts when watching your replay: "gentle", "calm", "tamed" and "respectful". While the car would surely love you for being so gentle with it, the clock would slap you all over the place and question you why you didn't push the car a little harder ;)
Try to think of your car as a...... an annoying politician or something. Someone's butt you'd really love to kick :D
If that's any help... imo, you need to show a bit more aggressiveness.

I am still turning in too early (a bad habit I have) at nearly every corner, and I'm still a bit scared of bumps on the exit (anybody have any setup advice? Rear rebound? Rear ARB?). And I'm not apexing properly on a lot of corners. This seems to be my biggest problem and I think it will be the hardest thing to fix, but I will try!

This would indicate that you're not using a setup that suits you too well. I have a way of making my setups suit my driving style, not changing my driving style to suit the setups. I'm quite sure you'd do better with a less understeering set, because I found it quite understeering when I tried it too.
So, back to your original statement: If you're scared of bumps at the exit, you could always try lowering the ARBs' stiffness because they appear to worsen the effects of one-sided bumps. Then you might try a lower diff power setting, since this makes the car a little more forgiving on throttle. A little more rear toe-in might help too. And of course using higher pressures at the front than in the rear. This will help giving you more precision during turn in and will give the rear tires more overall grip (since the pressures are lower than those in the front tires).
I'm not sure which set you're using at the moment, but I'm sure I could apply some appropriate tweaks for you if you could tell me exactly what bothers you about this set. Which corners? Under braking, acceleration, coasting... whatever. Just try to explain as thoroughly as possible.


While Biggie's analysis is ofcourse 100% correct, there's so much more than knowing the theory. From that analysis you can mainly learn a) smoother/different lines and b) early on the throttle.

However, trying to copy the "start throttle here" points is complete nonsense. For the early throttle to work, you have to set the car into the corner in a very specific way - I'm sure that's second nature for Biggie, but not for us struggling with getting below 1:50.

I agree. You'd have to use the exact same set I used. Even then you might discover that you find that set unbearable. To each his own, but ultimately you'd have to find a set that suits you perfectly. It's only then that you can truly start chasing the limits.


Sooo, this turned out to be quite a bunch of text. I hope you can draw some conclusions from it. Take my advice, think about it, but please do also consider very critically what the others suggest. This is all just my way of driving and making setups. You might find you're someone to go fast in a totally different way.

[Blaeza]

Well said!

[Michael Denham]

Great thread :D Some great advice here! I'm going to have to give this combo a go and see if I can't learn a thing or two as well (which I'm certain I can). I'm also at the stage of being fast but not being able to push that last bit and be right on the edge. I'm too scared.... :)

[Hyperactive]

Bwahahaha I'm still so slow... And I hurt my knee today and it hurts if I try to drive. Grr. Oh well, see you all on Monday. Someone tie Hyperactive up in a basement somewhere until I get back.

I'm here already :really:. Nice comfy soft walls, good lightning, steering wheel, net connection and computer. And all the time in the world to chase teh WRs. I am not sure about being tied up, never tried it before. Always prepared to try new stuff though :nod:

...and let's just say "1 sec less" :D

[Hyperactive]

OK I consider myself owned. :(

I think I know what I need to do now, but breaking all my old bad habits is hard, it doesn't feel "safe". I think it's going to take longer than I thought.

The annoying thing is when I do manage a quick lap, it feels easy. But when I try to do it again - I can't. I just settle back into my old stupid bad driving and forget where I made gains before.

Anyway, off to bed, long trip tomorrow...

Well, I think the key here is to learn new stuff and replace the old stuff with it. The hardest part for me has been to try to keep my concentration and to avoid making the mistakes I usually make which make me slower. It is a bit strange but when I try to think and put my mind into avoiding mistakes I get good corner entry, good mid corner and good corner exit. But. Once I am not fully thinking about the next corner I just do all the stuff I'm used to do. And lose a lot time. And it doesn't help that my wheel sometimes ignores my downshifts so I must look at the gear indicator while trying to slow down, so many laps ruined by that, grr.

A bit surprizing but I'm pretty sure that my bad habits come from GPL. I am totally lacking the mid corner part which makes me lose the most time. And I think it is because I "learned" that you need to be "fluid" with your controls to get the best time. Of course I then try to be extra fluid but I still end being too agressive... I just brake into corner, immediatelly put my foot on the accelerator instead of throwing the car into the corner. So basically I'm still holding the brakes when I should be neutral, which results lower speeds after enering into the corners. And the car points in the wrong direction because of this so no good corner exit then... This is most pronounced in the last corner where I still brake earlier than you and generally lose a lot time because I drive the corner wrong.

The hardest part so far has been the midcorner stuff. I'm a bit amazed how much I have lost there because I thought the biggest issue with my driving was that I was being too agressive. [yoda mode]to learn some new stuff you need to be willing to learn. To be willing means that you need to accept that some, or even most if not all, you thought you know is wrong. And what is wrng needs to be replaced. And that replacing can't be done in few laps, not in few days either. It may take 1000 years but there is only you slowing down;)[/ym]

Don't just quit on me now, dammit.:D That first time you posted was pretty hard for me to break, but now after some practise I'm easily getting under it all the time. Just keep practising and learning and you will get under 1:50 too. Defenately not easy but defenately possible. Even for you :)

[Electrik Kar]

We need a 'C'mon Kev' cheer squad!!! :static:

[rc10racer]

We need a 'C'mon Kev' cheer squad!!! :static:

Done

[Hyperactive]

heh :D

[Electrik Kar]

Done

and done!

[96 GTS]

And done!

[Shotglass]

We need a 'C'mon Kev' cheer squad!!! :static:

lets put becky in a skimpy cheerleaders dress

[Gentlefoot]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Excellent thread this!

I hope you get a WR kev. That would inspire many of us slightly slower drivers on to greater things.

I was reading this thread yesterday. Now there is nothing really new to me in here but just because you know something doesn't necassarily mean you put it all in practice. I've been really struggling to even reach my own standard of 1.5 secs off WR for KY Nat Rev in the FOX.

I was lapping around 1:41.5s (even though my PB is 1:41 dead) or even worse. My frustration built and I just pushed harder and was missing apexes all over the place. My times were terrible. I worked on getting the power on early but my times only improved marginally. Then I started to think about something I've read in this thread. It went something like "corner entry is all about getting the car in the right poistion for corner exit and power on early." All of a sudden my laps times fell by about half a second. Then I banged in a 1:40.44 beating my PB (which stood for a while) by half a second.

I'm sure I'd have just carried on pushing too hard at corner entry had I not read this thread. So thanks to all the contributors, especially Biggie for his AFS analysis - I know how long it takes to do all that stuff.

[Jakg]

done!

[Michael Denham]

:static: :static: :static: Kev, Kev, he's our man, if he can't do it, maybe Hyperactive can! :static: :static: :static:


:P

[Gentlefoot]

I can't really do that because I'm using a clutch pedal and braking with my right foot.

m8 - you are already a WR holder. I don't think people realise how much harder it is to use a clutch and be smooth.

[Hyperactive]

m8 - you are already a WR holder. I don't think people realise how much harder it is to use a clutch and be smooth.

I'm a bit scared how fast he could drive with auto clutch. If he can shift fast and consistantly with his clutch, I'm sure that he may win some time in short run. But one mistake and...

[The General Lee]

Done :smileypul

[Gretzkyyzerman]

wow, best thread I have read here... why not make it "sticky"?

one quick question: some of you faster guys mentioned that you coasted the car towards the apex... Some of the racing theory I have read (Speed Secrets etc.) always stressed that there should be no phase during the cornering where one isn't either braking or accelerating... I tried hard to get rid of coasting but that doesn't seem easy. Now as you guys are so incredible fast with it, it doesn't seem to slow you down??

[Glenn67]

one quick question: some of you faster guys mentioned that you coasted the car towards the apex...

When they say coast they are not implying you aren't decelerating or you are just going one speed... the fast guys come off the brakes at a speed higher than their desired apex speed and "coast" for a very short time just before the apex, which does two things, 1. it washes off the final bit of speed to get to the desired apex speed 2. it allows you to use more of the traction circle for turning to allow you to position the car best for acceleration. Also when they say coast, I think you will find they are picking up the throttle abit to balance the car also...

[z3r0c00l]

Biggie... I am amazed - thank you so much
I'm beginning to think I just don't react fast enough to be able to make a consistent corner entry each time.

You shouldn't be reacting to the corner, you should be anticipating the corner. Looking further ahead is the best way to make it feel like you have much more time to prepare for an entry.

[Slartibartfast]

Here's another vote to make this thread a sticky. This is the best thread I've read on this forum. Really well written advice from people who KNOW what they are talking about.

Priceless...

[edit] And save those graphics Biggie made. Amazing...

[RUF Tweaks]

Nice one, this has really helped me out!
Cheers :)

[sinbad]

Result :)
I'll cancel the apology chocolates.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Nice work Kev, great thread & Some really fantastic advice from the man himself, biggie.

[spankmeyer]

I'd nominate this thread for Sticky-lympics 2006 and request a printed hardcover edition! :nod:

[Alles]

well, 48 high should be possible, sofar i made 1:49,2 with new patch but before high 1:48. i havent really bothered much with this wr i just tried and made it, its nothing special. More of a challenge to me is LX6, i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6, thats what i did

[cmckowen]

Ah but alles look at your times in the LX6....want to make me cry, you better cool down for the LXCC :smileypul:thumb::nod:

[Alles]

hehe, well untill then ill try to get faster, had better split by few tenths allready but screwed it :pillepall :)

[biggie]

hehe, well untill then ill try to get faster, had better split by few tenths allready but screwed it :pillepall :)
Hope you don't mind me doing the dirty work for you :razz:
Dirty is the right word btw, that lap was certainly crap, 1:44 definitely possible. I've attached my set for anyone who wants to try it.

More of a challenge to me is LX6, i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6, thats what i did

Well, uh, in my opinion it's the other way round. Being able to control the LX6 means you can control the more forgiving LX4. On the other hand, being able to control the small amount of power of the LX4 doesn't mean you have enough sensitivity in your right foot to control the untamed force of the LX6 ;)

[96 GTS]

Well, uh, in my opinion it's the other way round. Being able to control the LX6 means you can control the more forgiving LX4. On the other hand, being able to control the small amount of power of the LX4 doesn't mean you have enough sensitivity in your right foot to control the untamed force of the LX6 ;)
I think if you reread his post, he's saying the exact same thing you are, once you master the LX6, the LX4 is easy. I agree with this, by the way.

[LFSn00b]

Go get that record!!! :smileypul

[biggie]

I think if you reread his post, he's saying the exact same thing you are, once you master the LX6, the LX4 is easy. I agree with this, by the way.

Nono, he was saying you first need to be able to control the LX6 - and only when you can do that, you will have what it takes to master the LX4.

i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6

I was trying to say that I have a different opinion on that, meaning that you can be fast in the LX4 without ever having mastered the "beast" LX6.

Of course this implies that once you succeed in controlling the LX6, you'll have an easy time controlling the LX4. Probably that's what we all agree on.

[Alles]

Hope you don't mind me doing the dirty work for you :razz:
Dirty is the right word btw, that lap was certainly crap, 1:44 definitely possible. I've attached my set for anyone who wants to try it.

i dont mind atall :), feel free to take all my wr's, i dont really care, i just made those times cause i had nothing else to do. I actually dont like to hotlap much anymore, but as i said didnt have much to do so i tried, didnt really try much to acheave them :)

and about LX6 to LX4 issue, i was refering to steering. If you can control lx6 under full throttle then you should control LX4 under full throttle. Sry i didnt make myself clear enough :)

[AeoIus]

Finally got around to look at it and try it out a bit (to my own regret, but still fun :scratchch).

First of all my overall impressions from the driving by Biggie and Kev:

Kev drives clean lines, not too much sliding, hardly countersteering and nose pointing to where he wants to go at that point. Biggie flicks the car in a sliding position where the nose is pointing not quite in the direction he is going, but the direction he wants to go in the second part of the corner and coming out of the corner.

When I drive LFS, I try to drive like Kev, clean lines, not much countersteering because that is for me the nicest/best way to drive. I have a problem with intuitive countersteering in a computer game, because I don't get the G's working on my body as I have in real life. My solution for this shortcoming in LFS is to drive as cleanly as possible. Rear wheel drive cars in LFS are, for me, terrible to drive because I seem to be unable to correct the car in the right way as I seem to be able to do naturally in e.g. a go-kart. I always seem to oversteer and overthrottle and overbrake in these situations if I even notice I'm already going sideways.

I looked at the driving by Biggie and I 'get' his driving and why he drives like that. After I stopped drooling at his amazing car control I just watched it again (and again) for the sheer beauty of it.
And of course I'm completely unable to even come close to that driving style. Yes, his nose does not seem to be pointing in the right direction and Kev's nose does. The small flick of the steering wheel to start the controlled slide for me results in all kinds of things except a controlled slide :D

I did however check the replays not only from cockpit view, but also from the follow cam view. Looking at both drives from that perspective the way Biggie drives looks a lot cleaner and better pointed in the travelling direction then Kev's drive. I thought that a bit strange since the in car view seems to suggest it a bit different imo.

Of course I tried a bit myself and was hopeless with the setup given by Biggie. I'm understeering going into a corner and oversteering when getting on the throttle with the setup provided by Biggie (LX4 Solong3).
Then there is the full throttle Biggie is able to get to really quickly sometimes. When I try to do the same thing and I have to steer even a little bit, I get into a spin immediately and am usually unable to catch it, even with full couterlock. Apparently the slides are already too far gone for me to be able to catch, before I notice them. This is my own personal problem of course, but one that keeps me from enjoying most of the RWD cars.

It seems I need to start getting my mechanics hat on and really work on a setup I feel comfortable with and that complements my own slow driving style (did I already mention my fastest non crashing lap was in the 1:57 :D)
It's probably going to be the only way I'm ever going to enjoy the RWD cars, by tuning out every bit of oversteer I can find :)

Ah well, this is just the way I see it and maybe I should stick to this same track/car just to start getting a feel for a RWD car. I mean, if I master 1 I should be OK to go in others too right :thumb:

[DaveWS]

As Kev seems to be, err giving up, I am going to see what I can do too. I wouldn't expect much though yet. My PB is 1:52 at the moment I think. But that was only a few laps.

[N I K I]

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent :nod:

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up :thumb:.

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs :D

[axus]

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent :nod:

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up :thumb:.

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs :D

Rubbish, Flotch WR's are easy. He doesn't put half as much effort into them as he should. :p

[_Rob_]

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent :nod:

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up :thumb:.

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs :D


I did that, had something like 5-7 WRs at one point.....1-2 weeks later and they were still all gone :(

[DaveWS]

As Kev seems to be, err giving up, I am going to see what I can do too. I wouldn't expect much though yet. My PB is 1:52 at the moment I think. But that was only a few laps.

God dammit. This is really tricky. My problem is that i'm so inconsistent. I can nail some corners, and then f**k up the one after it etc. The replay I have attached is pretty crap, but I absolutely NAILED the final sector. I think i'm quicker in the final sector than biggie was in fact. Actually come to think, best previous to last split was a 1:11.8 (yeah I know its crap), but added to my perfect final sector in this replay, and I would have beaten Kev. :) I'll try again tomorrow.

[DaveWS]

Biggie, If you don't mind me asking, how many laps on average of experience with a combo does it take for you to set a WR?

[N I K I]

Problem whit WRs are that U have WR one some shit:x track/car. Cant do that, drive something where are 100+ racers have time and if U have WR there no one will take it,:thumb: if you have WR on combo whit 5-10 racers someone faster will come and take it:shrug:

[biggie]

Biggie, If you don't mind me asking, how many laps on average of experience with a combo does it take for you to set a WR?

Hard to say really... it mostly depends on the setup and the popularity of the combo. I spend 50-80% of my time tweaking setups to my liking, so most of the time is spent not doing actual "hot laps" because I can't/don't want to focus on my driving yet.
I haven't spent much time on most of my current WRs though, maybe up to 20-60 minutes each. Given I have a good set from the start and the combo is not that popular, it sometimes takes me 15-20 minutes only (like FE1 XRT).
There are a few more pushed WRs on which I spent much more time. But it's hard to make a generalization.

[DaveWS]

Hard to say really... it mostly depends on the setup and the popularity of the combo. I spend 50-80% of my time tweaking setups to my liking, so most of the time is spent not doing actual "hot laps" because I can't/don't want to focus on my driving yet.
I haven't spent much time on most of my current WRs though, maybe up to 20-60 minutes each. Given I have a good set from the start and the combo is not that popular, it sometimes takes me 15-20 minutes only (like FE1 XRT).
There are a few more pushed WRs on which I spent much more time. But it's hard to make a generalization.

Wow. I managed to get a WR once (for about a day), and I took about 6 hours. :(

You must have some real serious talent (but we already knew that). :nod: :thumb:

EDIT: Discovered this thread again today. Wow, a lot of time has passed since I was struggling to beat Kev. :P Had another shot with the old patch again today, lap attached.

[AtomAnt]

Hi Kev,
Well it took me the same amount of time since you started this.

I'm 0:00:02 off the WR @ SO1R w XRR.

I'm driving the big fat XRR, but you inspired me to knock off WR's..I hold SO3R and i'm so close to SO1R I can taste it.

Good luck with your quest.

Ant

[tinvek]

like the sig AeoIus


hey i've become quotable :)

[lococost]

Brilliant tread!

You were talking about adding more camber before... What I'ld like to know (for a long time) is, what is the main difference between adding more camber and lowering tyre pressure? They both seem to add more grip, they both seem to add more heat to the tire, so where should you draw the line between more camber/less pressure?

[biggie]

Exodus made an interesting point to me the other day: I was surprised that he was running twice as much camber as me, but the insides of his tyres were running cooler than mine. He pointed out that reducing camber reduces available grip in the turns, which can cause wheels to slip and generate more heat. My setup was certainly doing that. So while too much camber can cause the insides to cook because only a small part of the tyre is doing most of the work of accelerating and braking, too little camber can cook the whole tyre during cornering.

... what I said ;)

You should really try my new set again. Because of your low pressures and your relatively low camber settings, the tires deform quite a lot during cornering. You should aim for keeping the contact patch even during the corner. Imo, you're clearly running too little camber. More camber helps you deal with extreme situations a little when the car is "tilted" even more because of clipping a curb. You can think of driving over inside curbs as adding "more positive camber to the outside wheels".


Oh and how's your progress coming? If you're feeling stuck you might wanna come back to this thread and ask for counseling :)

[SparkyDave]

After driving other combos for a bit , return to your SO4 LX4 hotlaps because its often the case that you can be faster there after some time away, I find this alot.

I think the brain gets some time to assimilate all the info from the times before, and is able to apply it upon return with greater effect, or some theroy like that :D

SD.

:rock_band

[Bawbag]

Don't give up Kev!

Took me absolutely ages to get me a WR back in the days but once I got one it made being generally faster and getting more WR's a hellova lot easier.

But racing online is the fun poop so don't waste your time doing silly hotlapping. (Yes, i am being serious!)

I suppose you could try some other combos, maybe long rev which is quite fun, or maybe even some LX6 combos around Aston as South City is particularly hard to keep a valid lap and be fast. :thumb:

Good luck though, with whatever you go for. :)

[Blackout]

I probably would race online more often if there was more choice.

To OCC tonight again, eh? :shy:

[Hyperactive]

To OCC tonight again, eh? :shy:

OCC tonight? I'm in, even if you don't want me there :p

[Blackout]

OCC tonight? I'm in, even if you don't want me there :p

Okay, we dont want you there lets say in two hours.

(Reverse pchygology, don't tell Hyper) :D

[Kajojek(PL)]

I have a question. Sorry if it was asked and answered already in this thread. When I load my pb replay and wr replay into Analyze for Speed it says "Could not load a track for Fern Bay!" What should I do to make it work?

[andy29]

Make sure you have the SMX files from here (http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=analysers) :)

[Kajojek(PL)]

Well I have them... but what am I suppose to do with those SMX files? :shrug: (Im a noob ;))

[andy29]

"Create a "smx" folder inside your "lfs\data" folder and place the contents of this zip file in that folder."

If you are using WinZip, open the archive, press extract, and extract it to 'wherever lfs is\data\smx'. It should make the directory for you.

[Kajojek(PL)]

Thanks! It works now :)

[andy29]

:thumb:

[RudiTurbo]

I would reccommend driving the same car for a while, but change combos, just get used to one car so deep, that You feel it's like Your own body when sitting in the car :) If You can handle the car, then You can drive whatever lines with it eventually.
After You've mastered the car, pick another car, drive for a while, for months maybe, then after You have mastered the cars on a very long period You can adopt to them quicker laters, cause You have them somewhere deep in Your brains from that long period of how the cars drive and the speed comes back quick. So finally You are fast in all cars and need just a few laps to adopt :)

I use to drive only FXO at S1 beginning times, lately I'm a bit inactive, today when driving the gti I was going the WR pace , but I dunno, it felt like I could get them so barely, then after I had done more combos on Fe Later , I was driving Black rev then in the end, I started to feel the car so great in the end, at Gold rev chicane it felt so natural to go trough, the car had become so familiar again to me after all those laps, I went back to Gold rev and it felt easyer to improve that WR too , than the lap I had before :)

It's all about the feeling , You have to try and go over the edge etc, You have to find out how the car drives in all kinds of different situations :)

[N I K I]

I noticed one thing; you have to had a lot of time speend on that track you driving, not whit that car, whit all cars. It is good to have some practice at same track whit more different car becouse, you can do same things whit different cars. I don't know do you anderstend this but I men that you can enter some corner like noone doing whit that car, but someone do whit other, that is goood :). I see too that all aliens are in LFS since 2003. They have so much practice time. biggie sad that he need 20 minuts for one combo for PB. Man he have 100+ hours of practice there allredy. I am in LFS (demo) )since 0.5K version that is May 2005. I was suck a noob, mine nick was Nicky. In Apri 2006 I made new acount N I K I and then is just relesd 0.5U version, new fisics. I was driving only BL1/XRT and you can see am so good there. In summer I worded for money and bought wheel (Logitech MOMO Racing) and drive again demo. In October 2006 I bought S2 and Im glad that I finilly did it. Now Im drivng for MHR chart. I thing it is great thing becouse it have all tracks and all cars. You can see what is good for you and what is not! I was driving all combinations on crack and now I doing all again on Licence. My atempt is to brage Sracer, Misko, Prezsi, BlackMan times. Palich is too good. I have all times completed on SO tracks. And they are good. But there was one big problem whit this. I have newer drive anything like SO in demo. Blackwood is like AS and KY, eaven WE is look like BL in some parts but SO is nothig like BL. You must enter corners diferently thatn in other track, can't do so much trail braking, corner speeds are so low, 80 km/h, 110 are in other tracks. FE is lot like SO so I'll drive now in FE for MHR chart. I alrady tred FXO on FE2 and I got, 1:17.85. Not bad, but I can do 1:17.3x whit mine sector. If I do 1:17.6x I'll be glad. I need 2-3 hours for sometrack to lern it and make some time 101.xx% WR. After 5-10 hours I'm bored and got some good time, 100.5x-100.9x% :)). Is that good, or I need to much time??? (100.5x and faster are Alien times?)

What view are you folk using. I am looking from cocpit like real car and when Im in depp contetration I dont see virtual pedals I dont see little map track FPS, time counting or any gadgets, but I look only on road, but then I see split and Im dead. When I see some inposible split like; secound split was 51.6x and I just made 51.4x and only 4 corners to go and have new PB, I make terible misteke (Why God why??). Why split times destroy mine contetration???

One more thing. biggie or someone else was tolking about car filing! That is mega important man!!! When you feel the car that is so good, you don't think how much brake pessure you'll give, how much turn or when to hit the gass (gas whit double ss lookin bether) you just do right and you got perfect time :D but thern come spits and contetration goes down :(

I think that you Kev should try Aston combinations (Grand Prix is so interesting). That track SO is not so good for begining, (I know you are not beginer, but you beginig whit WR break downs :D). AS, KY, BL and WE are track. FE is like carting track and SO is city track and you need diferent tehniqe there! And it is good thing that you decide to drive RWD cars, thay are much bether and much more funy to drive then FWD (God how I hate understeer!). Try to drive XRT, it is the best RWD car (FZR is best GTR, FO8 best formula and XRG best slow car, I'm not in to LX cars, it's fun but I like more normal car :D ). Try to do Aston Grand Prix /XRT. It is cca 3 min lap, but it has all man, all! Slow cormens, fast cornes, herpins, chicanes all. It is so good track for incresing driving skill. If you are bored to dive 3 min lap then drive whit GTR car (XRR, FZR are makin lap in 2:40 not so much fust, then try F08, it makes lap in 2:30. AS5 is something like SPA Francoshumps in LFS :D

I think MRT5 will kill mine MHR times, :( , grrr I hate that car!

Demn NFS:Carbon is out and I think I must play that s**t. I'm so in Tuning, but mine driving skills are going wrong when I play Arcades :(
Anyway of to FE2/FXO (must do that 1:17.6x) and be in top 25 (be bether then Misko and Sracer)

Oh man what a long post, sorry about it :)

[N I K I]

There you go, I got a new PB, 1:17.69 (101.40% of WR). It is loking bad when you say like that, but see Prezsi, Sracer and Misko times, they are RWD fans like me and have times like me :). So I was doing a practice for a hour or so and go to eat, when I come back after 5 minuts I got a new PB (Whis full stumeck is easyer to drive, you dont think on food :D LOL). This is still not my best posible time, but I pleased whit this one, I'm on 23 spon and I think that is good, anyway top 10 here is inposible so what a practice for anyway. Dude biggie is RWD driver too but he hold WR here, can't understand that, man how do that?

[LFSn00b]

I may try getting the wr in the weekend at BL1 with Lx4 :pillepall First i will notice that i've should practise, no problem, i'll use 2 hours of my spare time to practising the track, the exact braking points and the right speeds, maybe faster speeds at the curves. Talking about practising... My destination is to get a wr with a week practising, that is 2+2+2+2+2+10+2= 22 h's. Then, you can call me a nolife :D But, that is my real destination, to get huge practise in a week, also the wr. It can be very difficult, and... Well, i may be a good driver with Lx4 then. Then i may could try some other tracks :) But now, i'll stay with BL1 and LX4 :shy:

[robgo]

Good luck:D I remember when about 2 years ago i first played with lfs demo, and was doing awfully, was seconds from wr for months. Then i realised that maybe having a good setup is important so i asked from a guy who was very close to wr and he gave me his setup. My times slowly improved and finally i got the the fastest time with clutch pack (that was the time when some demo racers realised that locked diff is faster then clutch pack in lfs). So setup is very important, don't be afraid to drive some fast setup, after all, even if you you are not doing that well with it you will be faster since the setup is faster.:) After a while, you will get used to these faster stups too. What i did next was searching for a good wr, with the setup uploaded to teaminferno and tried doing everyhing like in the wr (driving technique, heating up tire like in the wr). That was So classic with the fox for me. Thx Biohazard.:)

[LFSn00b]

Well, the first 5 minutes didn't look so good :/ 1:30:xx

[N I K I]

Good luck:D I remember when about 2 years ago i first played with lfs demo, and was doing awfully, was seconds from wr for months. Then i realised that maybe having a good setup is important so i asked from a guy who was very close to wr and he gave me his setup. My times slowly improved and finally i got the the fastest time with clutch pack (that was the time when some demo racers realised that locked diff is faster then clutch pack in lfs). So setup is very important, don't be afraid to drive some fast setup, after all, even if you you are not doing that well with it you will be faster since the setup is faster.:) After a while, you will get used to these faster stups too. What i did next was searching for a good wr, with the setup uploaded to teaminferno and tried doing everyhing like in the wr (driving technique, heating up tire like in the wr). That was So classic with the fox for me. Thx Biohazard.:)


same thing here, rodgo maybe we are not Aliens but we know what to practice, and we are good at that, nice WR at AS3 FZR :thumb: (very powerful):thumb:

SO Im saying that coping someones driving tehniq is not bad thing:scratchch but there is always some your specials moves at the drive:shrug:

Kepp on practice becous practice makes perfect:nod:

[robgo]

Thx! :) One of the reasons i copied the driving technique because Biohazard was left foot breaking (pushing the gas pedal while lifting up break pedal) in the first corner, and i wasn't familiar with that yet. The other was that i wanted to know what is needed to come around that corner so fast. Now left foot breaking is natural for me, i use it when needed.:) And of course i checked how fast i did the first corner in analise for speed till i couldn't do it as fast as in the wr. I use analise for speed regularly, it was a big help for getting the wr at as nat+fzr.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Check out this screen shot showing just how hard Biggie pushes that poor LX4 at SO4 :D

[Glenn67]

Nice shot! :)

Ineresting to see that the tyre deformation looks very realistic. Even though the suspension is obviously compressed and the right hand wheel is in the air, it doesn't look excessive... gotta love LFS :thumb:

[N I K I]

Check out this screen shot showing just how hard Biggie pushes that poor LX4 at SO4 :D

Demn whit that biggie, is he from Eart or what :pillepall

He is from Mars :nod:

Just joking :D

[zeeaq]

A second or two gap in speed almost always boils down to one thing.

That is what part of your mind you are using to drive.

What I see so often is people saying "Why can't I get anywhere near the WR?" then they get advice, and go and consciously think and try to do it. They improve slightly, but it never transforms them. That's because they have to stop driving with the conscious mind and dig into the subconscious. :scratchch

Once you want every thousandth of a second to count, thinking about what you are doing is too slow, you have to know what is going to happen before it does (eg. reacting to slides in sync with them, not as you feel it then deciding how to control it). It requires driving without thinking about driving. I hope that makes sense. :tilt:

I try to drive like that, but it's hard to focus sometimes when I've got people coming in and asking me questions and traffic outside making lots of noise. :razz:

The jist of my post is: Once you are controlling slides and reacting to every bump by instinct, not thought, then you can spend your thinking energy on perfecting your lines and how to set someone up for an overtake etc.

It's like having two minds, the subconscious driving the car and the conscious planning pit strategy, overtakes and racing line. Rally drivers never think about the river dance they are doing on the pedals, they just do it!

When you can do that naturally (it takes some time to do it without making yourself do it) WR's get closer and closer.

It's easy for someone to say "use this technique" but as long as you are thinking about using it, you won't be using it to it's full potential. Often people can get advice on a bunch of corners and driving a lap becomes like remembering all the pieces of a patch work quilt "right, here I do this, there I do that". That's no use. You have to know what is fast so that you never have to think about it. I studied WR laps and ripped off what they were doing in many cases. After a while you just know, and that's when you will pump in the times.

EDIT: I'd also drop the clutch if I were you and use shifter paddles, if you want to gain some more time.

Very well put. :nod:

[ayrton senna 87]

yea clownpaint is 100% right, i say u get to a stage where u can 'watch yourself' drivin but that counts more in real life than in LFS coz LFS is on a screen anyway lol

[GT Touring]

i am also curious of fast guys and My best time are still3-4 seconds off the WR types...like when I race the CORE guys...ugh
sometimes i can stay clean and cathc up and pass when they wreck... but3-4 seconds is HUGE
i have spectated them live and there is a lot of scrubbing and squeling going on, when i get those noises, it is drastic over steer and speed losss, or understeer and speed loss-missed apex.
I try to keep the chirps up but not the skids...so how is it they drive like this and seemingly never lose the speed I do?
or when I do follow the line and keep up they seem to accelerate away like 10% better- why is that (could it be my MOMO racing?) i have it calibrated and all too?
or do I just suck?
:schwitz:

[Glenn67]

i have spectated them live and there is a lot of scrubbing and squeling going on, when i get those noises, it is drastic over steer and speed losss, or understeer and speed loss-missed apex.


You have been arround quite some time so im guessing you know what a good line, brake points and apex speeds should be so that just leaves car balancing skills mid corner.

Think about wheel load for each wheel as you are going through a corner, and either use throttle or steering input to correct the loading on the tyres to maintain maximum overall grip through the appex of the corner...

[AeoIus]

or do I just suck?
:schwitz:
I get a similar feeling whenever I race :scratchch I think I know what my problem is and that is steering too much.
What I've been trying to look at is the steering range I use compared to others and I find that I kinda overdo it.
Accelerating away out of a corner I just loose speed, because my tyre angle is all wrong.

So I know what I do wrong, but seem to be unable to really correct it consistently :P

That said, it means I indeed do suck :thumb:

[mikey_G]

it might be that you're overcompensating with your steering wheel, which also causes weight to shift to places where it shouldn't go.
Just pick a braking point, and a steering point, and keep the car stable (come of the brake softly, and come on to the throttle softly).

[Glenn67]

I get a similar feeling whenever I race :scratchch I think I know what my problem is and that is steering too much.
What I've been trying to look at is the steering range I use compared to others and I find that I kinda overdo it.
Accelerating away out of a corner I just loose speed, because my tyre angle is all wrong.

Setting up your controller so it feels natural to you and enables you to be acurate and consistent with your steering inputs is critical in LFS.

I can't say there is one correct way that all fast drivers use, because there isn't, but you have to find settings that achieve the above goals.

For me on a momo that means in the logitek profiler I have all the axis set to maximum sensitivity and in LFS I have linear steering with no dead zones and Analog Steer Smooth set to 0.0. Also I use only moderate to low force feed back.

When I used an xbox controller I used similar settings with just the Analog Steer Smooth setting changed to 0.2 and changed the steering lock in all my sets to 16deg.

A lot of people often have the problem of excessively steering in corners, infact on most tracks you would be able to drive the track at race speed with steering lock set to 9deg :) the remaining steering lock is just for the pits or if you spin :p

One of the secrets of going fast is to keep steering inputs to a minimum, the more you have to steer the more chance there is of making an error. To help in steering always look to were you want to go not at were you are, if you are approaching your braking point you should start to look towards the appex (use your peripheral vision to sight the braking point). Same with the appex, as you aproach it don't stare at it, look towards the outside of the track were you want to be when you exit the corner. If you make a habit of doing this you will find you need less steering inputs as you can judge the trajector of the car better and don't tend to over compensate.

[chanoman315]

i'm always 2 seconds off a WR, no in hotlaping, in Mult.., only relax.. while driving.... im 2 secs off by relaxing and not hot laping, imagine if i do hotlaps.............

[Blas89]

i'm always 2 seconds off a WR, no in hotlaping, in Mult.., only relax.. while driving.... im 2 secs off by relaxing and not hot laping, imagine if i do hotlaps.............

If you do hotlaps you'll probably be always out the road xD

[bbman]

i'm always 2 seconds off a WR, no in hotlaping, in Mult.., only relax.. while driving.... im 2 secs off by relaxing and not hot laping, imagine if i do hotlaps.............

... you'd still be nowhere near a WR, that's for sure...

[romus74]

Former F1 driver J.J. Lehto put it nice when he was commentating the Australian GP. He said that if you make even a slight mistake in a corner then you have to drive the corner twice, and driving it twice is not fast.

[pierre61]

Well.. I'm mentally exhausted!
Reading this thread from beginning to end is just pure gold for a completely talentless paint scrubber such as myself.
I'm a GTL bloke and only bought the S1 license as a 'need a holiday' break from my countless disappointments in trying to get 'fast' with that sim. You chaps have given me a serious amount of food for thought ... most excellent thread!

Cheers
Peter

[Mazz4200]

I've been away from LFS for a year, so i never knew this thread existed until you bumped it Peter. Thanks bud, you've given me a perfect opportunity to take the piss out of Kev now.

:trampolin Kev......World Record :hihi::Kick_Can_

Actually, i better go check the stats just incase he did actually manage it :schwitz:



(sorry, couldn't resist)


[Edit] Just read through the whole thread and i got to say it's a great read. Even if you didn't manage a WR yourself Kev you certainly inspired a fair few future WR holders to knuckle down and really improve their driving and speed. There's some priceless advice from Biggie in here, and hopefully a few more newbies can read it and really learn how to drive like a pro. So for that i take my hat off to you for being brave enough to start this thread knowing you'd be in for a fair bit of stick from arseholes like me. :)

[jrd.racer]

Hi im new here, Just wanted to say:

GO ON KEV YOU CAN DO IT! focus ^_^

have you considered paying more attention to the mental aspect of driving?.
sometimes we can restrict ourselves through subconscious block's or negative energy. when you first approached the world record and got within 1.5 seconds, that felt good right? but mabye when you realized that progress would be difficult this negative energy crept in. I believe it can stop us from thinking or acting dynamically because we have already subcontiously accepted defeat.

If you do get a WR don't go changing on us, ok buddy, if you start riding around in hummers wearing fur coats, with like 4 or 5 ho's in the trunk, sippin on high octane, people may get jealous, keep it reel Kev. good luck! :)

WTFROFLAMO!!!!!!!!!!1
and.......28th September 2007, 20:59. MASSIVE!!BUMP!:nod::nod::nod:

he deleted his post lol.

[N I K I]

Is Kev even still driving? :D

[thisnameistaken]

Is Kev even still driving? :D

Kev's accelerator has gone all scratchy and untrustworthy, unfortunately. :(

And Kev's too busy buying musical instruments to buy another wheel.

And no I never got a WR, not for lack of trying, purely lack of talent. :)

Edit: Bugger, just noticed I deleted all my posts in this thread during that crazy purge period I went through. Sorry to anyone reading it now.

[logitekg25]

i really do not want to advertise, but being slow myself i want it to be a nice person and help a fellow slow person prove we are fast :confused:

PM me please ;)

[Shotglass]

maybe you could hook up your effects pedals and use those for lfs
might give you some interesting results

[ErAri]

As some of you may be aware, the fact that I'm not very good at LFS has become something of a running joke around here (which I don't really mind), but this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14153) made me decide to try my very best (which in the past hasn't been anything like good enough ;)) to drive a car super-duper fast like the super-duper fast guys do.

I decided to concentrate on one combo for the night and try to get within a second of the world record. I get bored easily so I picked the LX4 at SO Long to keep my concentration up, and I did close to 100 laps. My best time was a 1:51.150, which is exactly 1.5 seconds off the current WR - not bad at all for me. :thumb:

So I decided to change my goal a bit - I'm going to try to beat the current world record. *cue riotous laughter* So obviously I'm going to need some (lots of) help (possibly psychiatric), and if any of you are feeling kind or bored enough, this is how you can help (in ascending order of helpfulness):

1) Watch lap three of the attached replay and tell me where you think I'm losing this 1.5 seconds. Is there something obviously bad about the way I'm driving? Are there corners that I drive especially badly? When comparing my lap to the WR at LFSWorld I'm losing pretty much the same amount of time in each sector, so I think it must be a general bad driving thing.

2) Try the attached setup and tell me if/why it's not good enough - it's almost the same as the SO1R set at SetupField credited to Biohazard. I think I'm pretty happy with the balance of the car, but the only thing I really need to preserve is the stability when turning in and coming off the brakes - I'm useless at dealing with cars that want to change ends when turning and braking.

3) Explain how I can use replay analysers to work these things out for myself. I've got F1PerfView and AnalyseForSpeed installed, but I haven't a clue how to use any of this data to improve my lap or my setup. This would be especially helpful - I suppose it's like the teaching the man to fish thing (I've always been crap at fishing too, but I'm not all that desperate to improve my fishing abilities, so please disregard the fishing proverb analogy).

Any help much appreciated!


Personally, I think that you have to be concentrated. The psychology is very important in the world of the races.

Little by little, and with the experience, you will experience an improvement as pilot.

To do a WR is very nice, but to win a race is nicer still :thumb:

[ACCAkut]

maybe you could hook up your effects pedals and use those for lfs
might give you some interesting results

accelerator input through a big muff or a wahwah sounds tempting :nod:

anyone ever tried playing LFS via Guitar hero guitar? :D

[Shotglass]

im trying to come up with a remotely sensible control setup for this but i keep returning to one that requires a whole rock band set of controllers
you could have the guy at the drums make the noises of the gearbox mechanics and also the choice of gear through the different drums the guy with the mic could be the engine (also adds the interesting layer of cooperation where the drops in engine revs have to be syncronised with the drummers gearshifts otherwise the gearbox wont disengage) and the position the guitar is held in could be the steering input

[thisnameistaken]

Well I've got two +/- 5v expression pedals (one 100k pot, one 25k) but I'd need a spring under the toe or something. And a USB to TRS jack cable or something? Heh.

Nah it's not going to happen. I'm too busy trying to figure out how humans can play double basses anyway.

[bunder9999]

I'm too busy trying to figure out how humans can play double basses anyway.

OT: can't you just finger pluck it like an electric bass? :shrug:

[thisnameistaken]

OT: can't you just finger pluck it like an electric bass? :shrug:

Yeah, or you can bow it, or slap it. Pizz playing technique is different to playing bass guitar though, and the left arm technique is very different. Basically I'm trying to do this properly because if I don't I'll probably give myself tendonitis and not be able to play anything. And I'm usually a total hack so the discipline is hard for me.

It's fun though, so persevering is easy. :)

[logitekg25]

so the whole world record thing is done with :shrug:

i was going to try to help you with that set problem you were having (turning left to right was unstable :really:)

[thisnameistaken]

Yeah there were two main problems that I ran into:

1) Starting a thread about it caused lots of other bastards to go and drive the lap faster than me.

2) I am shit.

[Bawbag]

Yeah there were two main problems that I ran into:

1) Starting a thread about it caused lots of other bastards to go and drive the lap faster than me.

2) I am shit.


It did however help a lot of people when Biggie came on with a very detailed explanation as to where you were losing time.

Although, it does make people wanna come along and beat you, I remember someone posted a thread about having a great world record, which made me go and hotlap the combo, can't remember who it was in the list but I felt bad after doing it, but that's where gloating gets you. :D

As Gt rev F08, doh.

[rc10racer]

It did however help a lot of people when Biggie came on with a very detailed explanation as to where you were losing time.

Although, it does make people wanna come along and beat you, I remember someone posted a thread about having a great world record, which made me go and hotlap the combo, can't remember who it was in the list but I felt bad after doing it, but that's where gloating gets you. :D

As Gt rev F08, doh.

Here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=39121&highlight=Beat) :thumb:

[thisnameistaken]

Here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=39121&highlight=Beat) :thumb:

Wow you killed that thread stone dead! :thumb:

[NickC]

If you want to get an easy WR. Just check how spanneman is doing that in his latest hotlap!

I would be ashamed to upload that!

[Rudy van Buren]

its just stupid to upload that cinda hotlaps.... hope he is proud of it....:x

[hp999]

Try taking the walls closer. That'll always save time!

[logitekg25]

where is a link to the spr?

[jrd.racer]

Just like arox's bf1 WR around that same track.
but then karolis and pearcy attacked him and took it away.

edit: which spr logitek?

[logitekg25]

where can i see these replay'ed hotlaps, i am curious how i can get a WR *cough* i mean look at how pathetic they are :Looking_a :hide:

[jrd.racer]

where can i see these replay'ed hotlaps, i am curious how i can get a WR *cough* i mean look at how pathetic they are :Looking_a :hide:

You can get them from lfsworld.net. you have to click the S2 hotlaps icon>hotlap charts>then choose the combo.

[Kalev EST]

2) I am shit.
Admitting the problem is the first step to recovery.

[logitekg25]

what combo is it....and sorry for nooobish ness, i really dont use lfsworld :x

[jrd.racer]

FZR@SO sprint 2/a.k.a SO3
n00b lol

[EliteAti]

If you want to get an easy WR. Just check how spanneman is doing that in his latest hotlap!

I would be ashamed to upload that!


Yeah, you should be ashamed of your KY2/MRT Lap then. Dont whine at others if you cheat aswell.

[chaa]

well, there are a lot of cheated WRs. Look at Ky3r LX6 by pecholobo...

[Bmxtwins]

Yeah, you should be ashamed of your KY2/MRT Lap then. Dont whine at others if you cheat aswell.
Yeah what he did was pretty cheap.

[NickC]

Haha yeah its so comparable. :S

And on ky2 it was done so many times before. I wanted the WR and there was no other way then to just beat them at the same.

Unlike this guy i posted about. But ok some people just always want to be a pain in the ass :)

My lap is still done by doing a good lap not by getting lucky and hitting the wall as hard as you can without getting HLVC

[EliteAti]

You wanted the WR, why didnt you report the bug to the Devs so they could of fixed the .pth file? It is comparable to SO3 because you gain time in both wall and cutting, making that effort look very cheap and makes you look like a cheat. Be a fair racer, not a twat.

I can also say the following about arox' time

"Yeah, its on SO3, it was done many times before. He wanted the WR and there was no other way than to just beat them at the same."

The rest of his lap was also done by a good lap (except the wall, and in your lap it was cutting).

So it is actually very comparable.

[NickC]

Oké dude.

This is either gonna be a very long argument or i can just stop it now :)

You're right! :thumbsup:

But btw

"why didnt you report the bug to the Devs so they could of fixed the .pth file?"

Are you serious?

[EliteAti]

"why didnt you report the bug to the Devs so they could of fixed the .pth file?"

Are you serious?

I am, i cant stand cheating.

[NickC]

Same here :)

See you online later. We can talk about it more there ;) . Cant do it here now. Im gone for couple of days.

[pearcy_2k7]

I am, i cant stand cheating.

All the wall banging etc has been there for years, they don't give a fak.

[Big.Jamo]

:wow: This Thread has been around for quite some time now.

:thumb: Cheers to all who posted comments. Im new to LFS & these contributions to the forum have answered a lot of my questions & hopefully have solved a few of my set-up issues.

Double Thumbs Up to BIGGEE :thumbsup::thumbsup:

:eclipseehSee ya on Track. :rally_dri