Open LFS for new tracks..

[Boris Lozac]

I want to suggest to the devs that they consider the posibilty for making the game track-able.. ;) I mean.. i really would LOVE to see Nordschleife in LFS.. Or SPA.. etc...
By this, i don't want them to make the game totally open sourced, NO, i hate the idea, for moders to play god, and make their own car "physics".. that's why i stick with LFS.. I really hate all that mod things.. BUT i am all for new tracks! And i think it would be great, for the developers to make that, that users can create their own tracks, but ONLY those who are aproved by the devs, could be used Online, only the best ones..
I mean, i saw the screenshots of Nordschleife that some guys are making for Netkar, and that is unbelievable..!
Don't get me wrong, i LOVE Eric's tracks! But i think that LFS can loose great amount of players, because of other games, like rFactor, Netkar PRO.. because of the custom tracks..

[Mbrio]

The devs have indicated they intend to release the editors in the future, but probably only after S3. The new cars and tracks Eric makes are the main reason people buy new licenses. If people could just stick with S1 or S2 and still add more tracks (and cars), there would be no reason (apart from supporting the devs of course) to buy S3.

There is a way to circumvent this though: let people who have already payed for S3 be able to 'unlock' mods. That way the devs can release the editors before S3, but still get the money. So, maybe they'll go with that eventually. Dunno :shrug:

Don't expect any of that before S2 is really finished though.

[KiDCoDEa]

if it happens, it happens after S3. those are the guidelines.
on a personal note i hope that doesnt happen ever, and if any modding will be allowed/incentivated, i hope only under some special conditions that maintain quality and incentivate real talented modders. i hope this wont ever turn into racer or f1c. we dont need that. at least i certainly dont.
gtp (n2003) or gtr (isi) quality mods take a lot of time, resources, and commited talented people. if u wanna just fool around , racer is the acdsee of 3d racing sims.
This issue has been beaten to death in so many other threads makes me wish that archive was here already.
when does the lfs archive come here (even if only as read only)?

[dUmAsS]

i hope it doesnt happen for a long long long time. i dont look forward to having an influx of crap tracks :/

[Boris Lozac]

Yes, but i was saying that ONLY GOOD tracks could be played online, and there would be a few good ones...But, are u saying that you wouldn't like to drive on Nordschleife..?? ;) But then again, maybe we should wait for S3... i really flipped when i saw that Nordschleife for Netkar.. so excuse me.. ;)

[Qurpiz]

I think that we should have all the possible configs (well, the ones that make some kind of sense) from the environments we have now until we start requesting real-life tracks...
But sure, Nordschleife, Spa or some other great RL track would be nice to have in LFS, as long as they are as good quality as Erics tracks. But if they're modded to game, I doubt they could ever be.


this post makes no sense.....

[xapexcivicx]

People would just unlock s3 illegally like they do for s1/s2.

[Chris_Kerry]

I really like the tracks Eric makes and I think it gives the game originality, that other games lack.

[ajp71]

1. The DEVs couldn't be seen approving of unlisenced tracks?
2. I think that the Editors should be much like the N2003 Sandbox/GPL gtk setup, but with an alternative possibility of full 3d editing, so you don't get Generally quality tracks thrown together in MS paint but it doesn't limit people to just a few very high quality add-ons, a good site like the GPL track DB makes the best part of 500 odd tracks perfectly managable.

[Serpentine]

I really like the tracks Eric makes and I think it gives the game originality, that other games lack.

:iagree:

[Levi1]

I really like the tracks Eric makes and I think it gives the game originality, that other games lack.
I like Eric's tracks, but I don't care about originality when the game is a simulator. :)

[tristancliffe]

If only LFSW Approved cars and tracks can be used, then only people with S3 licences would be able to get them... Solves the tw*ts who crack it getting ANYTHING fun ourt of it.

I just hope there is some control, because more than 95% of user made mods will be total rubbish.

[L(Oo)ney]

I just hope there is some control, because more than 95% of user made mods will be total rubbish.

What makes you say that?

There are plenty of modelers just as good/better then eric. So why would they be "rubbish"?

Sure, there will be a fair few crap ones, but 95%? ..Dont be silly..

[tristancliffe]

Good ones take time, and bad ones will be rushed out like there is no tomorrow...

[Boris Lozac]

I got an idea..
After S3 is release or before.. I will(don't know about the others) pay extra 15, 20 euros for licence of Nordschleife, for ERIC to make it!.. BUT, i don't know how much would such an licence cost, but just imagine, an official LFS Nordschleife! That would be a dream come true.. Imagine the 24hours race, with (hopefully) day/night transitions, rain.. i mean, that would hold me for years, and years..
So the question is, does anyone know aproximately how much would licence cost, and how much would you pay for Nordschleife??

[L(Oo)ney]

Good ones take time, and bad ones will be rushed out like there is no tomorrow...

So dont download the rushed ones, and wait for the good ones instead - Patience.

To say 95% of mods would be crap, is just wrong.

There are a lot of talented people who would love to be able to model stuff for LFS, and would put the same amount of time/effort that eric does into them.

[J.B.]

I'm definately a sucker for real tracks. They just give you a very immersive feeling of "being there", especially if you have spent a lot of weekends at racing events in real life.

Having said that, I fully support the devs' way of doing things. In terms of quality and online compatibility it works very well. I hope LFS will never be fully open. Personally I find the whole mod scene to be quite a mess. I'm sure if LFS decide to allow 3rd party tracks in the future, they will have a clever approvement system to keep things nice and tidy. But it probably makes sense to wait for after S3.

[Racer Y]

If only LFSW Approved cars and tracks can be used, then only people with S3 licences would be able to get them... Solves the tw*ts who crack it getting ANYTHING fun ourt of it.

I just hope there is some control, because more than 95% of user made mods will be total rubbish.

I agree with the first part. I don't think there would be such a high "rubbish" factor though. and I think the3 modding should be limited....limited enough
so that when you go online to play, you can enter a server that's running
a mod and download it there. Kinda like the way skins work now. or like
when you play on a custom map in Unreal Tournament.. it just instantly
starts to d/load.

But to change the physics too? Nah, that would be a total nightmare, or a very small and scattered few mods and no real compatability.
I dunno, maybe have two distinct types of modding and support.
one for tracks and one for cars.

I dunno about "replitracks". As far as tracks goes, Eric's tracks
rules over most* real ones ( *all that I've seen simulated)

And there should be some sort of tutorial for this to keep
half cocked no brainers like myself from churning out disasters. :)

[Boris Lozac]

I really really DON'T WANT LFS to be modable, i mean the physics, adding new cars, etc.. i am only for quality new tracks.. And also, i am would like for the devs to make new cars, from time to time, and charge(don't charge) for them..

[André]

Yep, a TE would be very nice indeed :)

[JessesAE86]

Being able to make my own tracks liek local windy roads would be awesome... but prolly hard..

it would be nice if there was a track which is on a mountain going downhill and up hill with lots of hair pin turns and 25% downgrade hills into winding roads where you can burn your brakes and flat spot your tires if you dont go slow enough..... now that would be fun, please make a mountain course where most max speed would be 50-75mph before you have to slam the brakes into a hairpin...

[MyBoss]

Would be fun with a competition where the devs/community choose the top three tracks, so the devs can add them to the game and make the correct adjustments to the tracks to.

Or another situation, after S3 is released the devs (or someone else) is in charge of a competition every quartal (I hope that is the right word) where one winner/ one track is choosen to get implemented in the game.

[XCNuse]

i like myboss's suggestion; having a competition every so often, i think thats the way it should go

[Boris Lozac]

Yes, good idea Myboss..
damn i want Nordschleife for christmas.. ;) :wmann3:

[inCogNito]

what makes you think there would be a nordschleife in lfs?

even in the most modded game ever, F1C, there is no decent nordschleife.

Just another conversion of a conversion of a conversion of the GPL version.

You would just get ALOT mediocre tracks, and maybe 1 or 2 gems.

If they have the quality of eric's tracks, that would be great, but i don't see this happen.

We will see how the rF nordschleife will be. If it's built from scratch, maybe this could change my mind.
GT4 has set the benchmark for the ring, that's the version the modders have to compete with.


And remember, it's already hard enough to find a server without oval, Aston National oder BLGP. Imagine what would happen if there are hundred of tracks around. Not to mention that it's a pain in the ass to search the download links before you can join.

[Boris Lozac]

Of course, i am not for hundreds of tracks.. that's why i said that i would pay for Eric to make them, after S3, or in the meantime..

[MyBoss]

yay, I finally had an idea someone liked. This calls for celebrating. :-D


seriously though. If the tracks submitted is judged to bad, they wouldn't get in the game of course. (if I could set teh rules)

[farcar]

i hope it doesnt happen for a long long long time. i dont look forward to having an influx of crap tracks :/

I don't understand. Even if 95% of the tracks are crap, you would simply choose not to race on them. I'm sure most of the community will be able tell which tracks are crap too, and they won't race on them either.

As far a filtering good from bad tracks, there are many feisable ways that have already been suggested.

[Bob Smith]

Yeah I think it's safe to say we need more racers online first.

I mean today I spent over an hour racing around FE Black Rev in the FOX. Damn hard! That track eats tyres. How many people joined? Three. And they left before we could have a proper race.

This morning I spent over an hour driving the GT Turbo (which nobody seems to drive.. hell nobody seems to drive road cars full stop) around Sprint Track 1. Nobody turned up.

Don't the GTRs and the FO8 get boring after a while? Sure they're nice, so is Aston, Historic in the FO8 is a right blast, but c'mon, experiment people!

If there's anyone likeminded out there, look for me on really obscure servers. :)

[Boris Lozac]

I also want to drive the "normal" cars.. I drive the GTI on our demo server, although i have S2 licence, just because people from my country are joining and we are playing together.. I want to drive a 1.32.xx on Blackwood in GTI, so that ocupies my time.. But i will seek you Bob, so we can race in normal cars.. ;)

[farcar]

I agree too.

I spend more time on the demo server, mainly because my FOX and FO8 skillz are still developing (read: I suck), and there are more opportunities for larger fields. I'd love to see more servers with 'normal' cars on them.

I also think that the MRT is heavily ignored. I had some races on Sprint 1 there once and they were a blast. Never seen such a server again.

What's this got to do with track editing again?

[Mbrio]

What's this got to do with track editing again?

The probability that if you introduce modding now, the playing field will be diluted even further, reducing the chance of finding a server with a full grid.

I agree that there first have to be more people online before modding becomes an option. Double the amount of players would be a minimum I think.

[Smasha_D]

LFS S4 Track Pack Addon ... anyone ?

:nod:

[detail]

Would be fun with a competition where the devs/community choose the top three tracks, so the devs can add them to the game and make the correct adjustments to the tracks to.

Or another situation, after S3 is released the devs (or someone else) is in charge of a competition every quartal (I hope that is the right word) where one winner/ one track is choosen to get implemented in the game.
I don't pretend to be an "author", the ideas come to us independently, but I supposed the same idea before, couple of years ago. Good point.

[Misko]

There was a very nice, long and interesting thread about Nordschleife on old RSC LFS forum. IIRC the licence for that track in a game is expressed in 5 digit number euros. ;)

Oh, and we have some sort of track editor right now and it works online already: autocross layouts editor. ;)

Further improvements to that would be very nice, like adding curbing objects, even maybe defining tarmac and grass areas (ok thats quite difficult, just adding 'sand spilled over tarmac' kind of object would be enough for now to mark the 'out of track'), so we could create kart tracks at least... but thats a different topic.

[Infiniti]

It'd be cool to have local type tracks like MAM - Mid America Motorplex, I live only few min away from this track, its cool cause its flat and you could see all the other cars on the track at one instance. Heres a video of a club called Midwest Mustangs (friend is part of it) that helped make this video of the fun day out there. Enjoy :thumb: http://64.158.28.140/MPEG/TwinVision/mam_5_1_2004.mpg

[Vendetta]

How about to get the mod tools, you gotta buy them. That would certainly keep the people who just want to make crappy foolish tracks away..

[SchneeFee]

not a good idea Imho - most people still arent able to race our current tracks prober...:cyclops:

[Racer Y]

not a good idea Imho - most people still arent able to race our current tracks prober...:cyclops:

LOL that right there is probably the best argument I've heard so far as to why there SHOULDN'T be mods allowed.

Something tells me that if we're allowed to make mods or not, making a mod of a real track will probably cause problems with the real track owners for everyone though... you know licenses and copyrights and all that nonsense.

I still think there should be modding, but it would have to be in a very structured environment... I dunno... instead of actually modding, have like flexible slotcar track type pre set peices that you just stick together and bend to taste. What about something like that?
And other little things like trees and those weird guys that stand around in crash helmets (what are they supposed to be anyways?) that you sorta stick around the track

I dunno, I still favor modding, but I think that all mods created should be as instantly accessable and compatable as a genuine track. you know, don't be changing all them .ini files :) and if the mod sucks - leave, and dump it from your Tracks X folder or whatever.

As far as cars go, I figure there'd be the same hassles as with the tracks. LOL could we mod cars from other video games?
I don't know much about modding yet, but I don't think you should have to alter the game physics to have any particular type of car and I don't think there would be pandemonuim on the servers cause of all the car types made. I think that that problem could be dealt with by having the server adm. decide if modded cars are to be allowed and that the cars would have to be still instanly downloadable by the person when they go into the server.

Is something like that possible?

[shockman]

Concerning modding...

I guess it is pretty much pointless to discuss it right now, as we all know LFS S2 is not the final product, and still won't be for some time. I strongly believe, that if devs will allow modding, they will do it in the best possible way for the whole community. What I understood from their previous comments, it looks like the modding tools/editors would be commercial products, with their separate support, which would be a good idea. But at this moment it is pure speculation. Anyway, with all respect to modders and their creativity, I do not care about modding of LFS that much, as majority of mods for other racing games are of low quality at least compared with the original content. All these considerations apart, is fragmenting the online play really what we need right now? What I mean by "fragmenting" is, that there will be servers running different mods, and in the end there will never be enough people playing the same "mod". But, it would all depend on how the question of modding would be solved by devs, and as I mentioned it earlier, it is too soon to even think about it.

Someone mentioned Nordschleife, and it is a recurring topic in LFS forums, which is not surprising. I can only say for myself, that I would glady pay for a "Nordschleife for LFS", if the devs would even think about buying a license.

Cheers,

[whendrix]

Concerning modding...

Someone mentioned Nordschleife, and it is a recurring topic in LFS forums, which is not surprising. I can only say for myself, that I would glady pay for and "Nordschleife for LFS", if the devs would even think about buying a license.

Cheers,

I also wouldn't have an issue paying extra for an official Nordschleife add-on for LFS.

Wim

[tristancliffe]

I also wouldn't have an issue paying extra for an official Nordschleife add-on for LFS.

Wim

Likewise... Another £20 coming your way Devs :P

[Vain]

I only registered here to say that I will pay any sum of money up to 50€ to play the Nordschleife in LFS, additional to the S2 license.
Oh, what am I saying? If Eric would demand it I'd pay more! I mean... It's the Nordschleife!

Vain

[DasKlee]

LFS S4 Track Pack Addon ... anyone ?

:nod:

sounds fine to me - real life tracks or fantasy - i would be interested in both

but like you said - STAGE 4 - after everything else is finished


and if it should be RL tracks, it would probably much more expensive because of license costs - but imagine being able to drive spa, the nordschleife, bathurst, le petit le mans and indianapolis with the S2 (and upcoming S3) cars - would be a great track pack

but then again i would rather spend my money on a handful very nicely built custom tracks, that include a short 'club' variant, an interesting rallyecross-variant and a longer GP variant. would be grat to have one in a mediteranian city (to have some monaco feeling), one up north maybe with snowy landscape around it (and on the rallyecross parts), one in germany or france which is a highspeed track in the GP variant and one in the states (2 different oval configurations - superspeedway and smaller dirt oval as well as infield racing) and one track in the southern hemisphere (australia/south america/south africa)

but either way, i'd definetly pay for my S4 license to get one of these

[Boris Lozac]

YES.. i would pay for Nordschleife too.. but can anyone tell, how much is the licence anyway, and would it be different price, then they charged Sony for Gran Turismo 4, i mean this is still a 3 guys with low budget.. I would really pay as much as community agree on paying.. although my paycheck is 250 euros, and i have GT4 and it's beautiful Nordschleife, but since installing S2 i stoped playing GT4, and i am selling Sony..

[L(Oo)ney]

Mod tools need to be released once S/E/V decide they have had enough, they know this.

Concerning the amount of players - Imo, the reason there isnt that many players, is because there isnt any real life tracks/cars (that they have heared of..).

People like to race on the tracks they can visit, the tracks they watch the races on at home on their tv - People want real tracks. And they are not in LFS, so they find them elsewhere, Rfactor, GPL, GTR ect ect.

Adding Real life cars and tracks would definatly increase the amount of players playing LFS, without a doubt.

[Mikkel Petersen]

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=83933&page=1&highlight=n%FCrburgring

Prices etc. is mentioned in this thread..

[Theafro]

To liscence the 'ring would mean LFS sales would have to incrase 'deamatically, i'd still pay for a special nordshleife edition!

[Linsen]

I recently discovered the GTP mod for N2003 and was purely attracted by those wonderful group C cars. I can tell you it wasn't easy to get my hands on a copy of N2003 and I went through a lot of hassle in order to get a reasonable priced one (finally got a used copy from a video rental). Now, a few days later I have to say that I prolly wouldn't have gone through all this if I had known in advance that it would be such a pita to get the right versions of the tracks you want and all those ini-files to go along. And of course, there are usually only five servers online, and none of them is running the "right" track of course.

So, I'm actually not against modding or just only additional tracks - but if and when the devs should decide to make LFS moddable I strongly feel that, as said before, all has to work in a very closed, controlled and centralized environment in order to make everything as easily accessible as possible.

But I'm sure the devs have already thought about all the problems involved in modding already. And I can wait till after S3. Especially since I hardly know any of the LFS-tracks, yet. ;)

[gloom]

Likewise... Another £20 coming your way Devs :P

Yeh, I would also pay extra for that. And I am sure it would not be cheap to license the Nürburgring Nordschleife for the devs.
but I wouldn`t want tracks that are not released by the devs or have at least been officially approved by them.
No custom tracks and stuff needed on my side, it is almost never quite as good as stuff released by the game-developers itself. (comparison made to other games I have played in the past).

[--==Gogo==--]

Well... I've never been on Nordschleife or Isle of Man. But i really like the idea of a very large Track with lots of curves.

So if the developers would make a fantasy-track with all the highlights of Nordschleife and/or Isle of Man, that would do it for me!

I don't like the idea of my money in the hand of some licencer.

[RMachucaA]

I'd pay too for the ol' ring :D.

[ajp71]

Just another conversion of a conversion of a conversion of the GPL version.

You would just get ALOT mediocre tracks, and maybe 1 or 2 gems.


Don't know where you're coming from with the GPL Nordschlife and conversions as the Pits 1970 version is one of those gems.

[inCogNito]

I think i tried all Nordschleifes for GTR. And they all sucked.

It may be ok if you don't know better, but if you played GT4, you know what i mean...

[Gunn]

It's a pulbic road, I wonder if a fee is even payable and to whom?

[Vain]

It is a private road where the public laws apply. So yes, the owner can take as much money as he wants to.

Vain

[Eldanor]

I would pay for The Ring without thinking twice, and many others would come to LFS only for playing it, that's for sure.

About adding more tracks, I think there are a lot of real tracks less known or very old that would ask much less money for a game license, and they are great tracks!! I Like the idea of the tracks contest, but if they're distributed by Live For Speed then the license has to be payed, and we have the money problem again :(

For the cars, I've not decided if I want 700+ cars in LFS, but what I would love to have is an "official" LFS Tweak style tool that works only offline, then we could copy any real car specifications and test them in LFS. I would love to try my own car in LFS, and I'm sure any of you too. :)

[TRM.13]

Oulton Park :tilt:

[Michel 4AGE]

Snip..
If you make a mistake (and everyone will make a mistake somewhere) you might never see another car until the end of the race. Imagine hitting something in the first couple of miles and having to nurse a tracking problem all the way back to the pits. And how long would it take any of us to actually get a clean, competitive lap there? Probably months of practise, only to join a server and find nobody else has put in those months of practise and it's just a huge wreck-fest.

It'd be a waste of everybody's time IMHO.

But that's not the point of the NS. I don't think the NS would be good for the usual pick-up race, it's more a track for Endu races, or setting up your car, testing different settings, or just cruise around and enjoy the view :)
It would be a challenge to practice and study different lines (especially when weather comes in LFS, wet lines on the NS are very very difficult). I think the majority of those who actually like this idea, are willing to sacrifice their social lifes in order to master this track.

[Boris Lozac]

@Thisnameistaken

You have some point there, BUT, imagine when you, and some people really master the track, and you have a 8, 9 minute laps with people behind your back, then you miss a braking point, they catch up, they make a mistake too, and so on.. :) It CAN be good for online, but people have to learn to drive it well.. I would pay for it, even if it is not playable online, i would be happy just hotlapping it..
And i am sorry for the thread name, i REALLY don't want LFS to be opened for moding..

[Eldanor]

I've done a lot of laps alone in Aston or Fern Bay, even with full grids, that's something that happens in races :). BTW I see The Ring more like a personal challenge, to master the line and fly from bend to bend, it would be amazing. Don't know how LFS tracks are designed, but if an old game like GPL can have a Ring, I presume LFS also can.

[Vain]

The Ring isn't exactly about racing each other. The Ring challenges the driver and the driver challenges the track. And it's always the same fight. Each race, each lap, each turn. Different drivers only compete in their ability to race against the track, not race against each other. That is a very special thing about the green hell.
One can master a normal track. But no one will master the Ring. Nobody did until today and propably no one will ever be able to do so.
This is propably a mayor point about the obsession behind the Ring.

Vain

[Eldanor]

But no one will master the Ring. Nobody did until today and propably no one will ever be able to do so.
Sabine Schmitz :nana::rofl:

BTW, I agree with you 100% :thumbsup:

[bw_krupp]

Just wanted to say that I used to play an old racing game (forget the name, it was mostly crappy) that had several cities where, if you wanted to race, you could click on the streets you wanted to use for the race, clicked the intersection for the start and finish, etc., and then raced. What is good about this is you could build a city like South City and a country roads map and set it up for this type of format. If you had more than just a couple roads, and many different intersections, you could conceivably have infinite number of racetracks, while not opening LFS to modders. The City map would be great for tarmac, and the country could be a rallycross with tarmac and farmers dirt roads.