Spinoff : Speedo discussions

[R3DMAN]

just a little note on were the speed is measured from..

i read (yes i actually read the whole of that closed post!) that the speed was measured from the non driving wheels to produce a more accurate reading, every car i have been in has measured the speed from the driving wheels..

if for example i was to jack my car up and put them on axel stands (as dangerous as this is..) and to start my car up the speedo would measure how fast my front wheels were turning. (FWD) so atm, the way the speed is measured is correct, well at least its correct for every car i have been in.

i havent tried the patch out yet so i cant really comment on how it works, but i just thought that i would throw that bit of info at you :)

Chris.

Edit : I have also driven a rwd car and thats measured the same way.

[Impreza WRX]

just a little note on were the speed is measured from..

i read (yes i actually read the whole of that closed post!) that the speed was measured from the non driving wheels to produce a more accurate reading, every car i have been in has measured the speed from the driving wheels..

if for example i was to jack my car up and put them on axel stands (as dangerous as this is..) and to start my car up the speedo would measure how fast my front wheels were turning. (FWD) so atm, the way the speed is measured is correct, well at least its correct for every car i have been in.

i havent tried the patch out yet so i cant really comment on how it works, but i just thought that i would throw that bit of info at you :)

Chris.

Edit : I have also driven a rwd car and thats measured the same way.
Cars measure wheel speed at the differential.

[z3r0c00l]

Correction:

Some cars measure the speed at the differential, some at the gearbox, some at the driving wheels, and some from the non-driven wheels. ( Correction from below : sometimes in a combination of these to allow for detecting wheel spin, probably for traction control technology)

I have a GPS speedometer which measures the speed without being mechanically attached to the car.

Please research and reference before making generalised claims.


Additionally - if you want to win races, you have to be both smooth and fast, neither of which are attainable by consulting the Speedometer. Driving should be anticipated control, not reacted responses.

I may check my pressures, temperatures and fuel on the dash once per lap on the straight to check for mechanical symptoms of failure, but gear changing should be done by anticipation and listening to your engine.

Speed is not important, what is important is when you accelerate, when you brake (and how hard), and how you turn (while braking and accelerating), if you do all those right, you'll have the shortest lap time, regardless of what your speedometer may "tell" you, wherever it gets its information from.

[J.B.]

Correction:

Some cars measure the speed at the differential, some at the gearbox, some at the driving wheels, and some from the non-driven wheels.


Or at multiple places so that wheelspin and locked wheels can be detected.

[Blowtus]

Additionally - if you want to win races, you have to be both smooth and fast, neither of which are attainable by consulting the Speedometer. Driving should be anticipated control, not reacted responses.

Depends what level of driving you are aiming to achieve. When squeezing the last bit out of the car being able to see my speed is extremely useful to me. You may be fast without doing so - I suspect there are plenty faster that do so.

[Flotch]

I always look the speedo too, irl you have many feelings that you will never have in a computer game...so you have to compensate
but if you do not search to be really quick, it is not that important, sure.

[RAYfighter]

I always look the speedo too, irl you have many feelings that you will never have in a computer game...so you have to compensate
but if you do not search to be really quick, it is not that important, sure.
:iagree:
I'm using digital speedo to exactly see my speed in particular turns, and using this number to compare it to WR hotlaps (by Flotch, for example :D ) or to my best try. It means something similiar as lap time or splits to me.

But this doesn't attenuates the justness of what Zerocool said about real cars:
Please research and reference before making generalised claims.

[PLAYLIFE]

Correction:

Some cars measure the speed at the differential, some at the gearbox, some at the driving wheels, and some from the non-driven wheels.

I have a GPS speedometer which measures the speed without being mechanically attached to the car.

Please research and reference before making generalised claims.


Additionally - if you want to win races, you have to be both smooth and fast, neither of which are attainable by consulting the Speedometer. Driving should be anticipated control, not reacted responses.

I may check my pressures, temperatures and fuel on the dash once per lap on the straight to check for mechanical symptoms of failure, but gear changing should be done by anticipation and listening to your engine.

Speed is not important, what is important is when you accelerate, when you brake (and how hard), and how you turn (while braking and accelerating), if you do all those right, you'll have the shortest lap time, regardless of what your speedometer may "tell" you, wherever it gets its information from.

And what about observation of effectsand comparing to others!?

[sinbad]

I keep the speedo set to analogue, never look at it, and I do ok.

[z3r0c00l]

Good points everyone, but every car has an absolutely perfect lap timer, if you want to be fast, that's what you need to be looking at, the speedo is a pitiful measure of performance compared to a lap timer.

I like looking at guages though, I like an excess of information, but I can drive just as fast without a speedometer. (IRL that is, I'm having trouble driving without any ffb, so I'm pretty slow generally, and hopeless in RWD with LFS.)

edit - Redman if you even read this: sorry to see you go from the STCC, good driving in round 1.

[Blowtus]

Good points everyone, but every car has an absolutely perfect lap timer, if you want to be fast, that's what you need to be looking at, the speedo is a pitiful measure of performance compared to a lap timer.

lap times give you little useful information about particular corners.

[Michael Denham]

If the speedo wasn't useful then neither would be analysing a pair of traces of speed vs time in a replay analyser. Whether you choose to look at your speed while you're lapping or afterwards is up to you! Personally I don't look at it much but there are one or two key corners in which I check my speed to see how I'm doing.

[arco]

Knowing the excact speed in corners, or when after braking for a corner is very important for me. I use the digital speedo as a reference all the time.

[z3r0c00l]

" lap times give you little useful information about particular corners."

Surely if you can't drive each corner consistantly enough to know if a change in line in one corner has affected your laptime in either direction, you arn't consistant enough to be searching for 1-3mph anywhere anyway?

[tristancliffe]

I use both the speedo and the splits to tell me what is happening (not soley those, I might add, but they are two tools at my disposal, so why not make full use of them).

If I carry more speed into a corner (using the speedo), but I get slower splits consistently, then I know it's a bad change (wither braking later, different line, different setup; whatever). If I'm slower in but get faster splits then I know it's good.

There is no point NOT using the speedo, or NOT using the splits, because it's information about your speed/pace. To ignore either would be at your peril. Okay, maybe not your peril, but your near mortal danger.

[Blowtus]

Surely if you can't drive each corner consistantly enough to know if a change in line in one corner has affected your laptime in either direction, you arn't consistant enough to be searching for 1-3mph anywhere anyway?

Well, you're wrong :shrug: I and others benefit from knowing the exact speed through the corner. I'm not slow, neither are the others I've seen comment on it. You may be fast and drive differently - good for you.
I'd still rather a realistic speedo instead of a 'perfect' speedo though, even if it is slightly slower / harder to learn.

[PingerS]

Any speedo that can be implemented on a real car is realistic (providing it behaves in the same manner). You're all debating a pointless topic... as long as you know how the speed is measured, which you do. End of Story. :)
Yay!

[BlakjeKaas]

There is a 'bug' though

IF you put limiter on, and you spin your wheels, your speedo tells you that you are going over 80, while your limiter limits it to do not more than 80...
so maybe in patch V you can maybe do It lik it will only go 80...

AND another bug (don't know if told already) of you are in a BF1 and you do TC off, Limiter ON, you put in in N, full throttle, into 1, still full throttle, keep it straight, and you get Drive-thru...

[z3r0c00l]

On corner entry, at threshold breaking you have 10% slip on all four tyres, as such the speedo will be measuring 10% slower on threshold breaking for corner entry, this varies as the track changes under the car and the weight gets thrown around and you modulate the brake effort to avoid a lock up or not losing enough speed, so you'll get a different speed for the same actualy velocity on several very similar corner entries to the same corner.... this is not consistant, consistancy comes before improvement. This is only really the case in real life though, seeing as brake pedals are travel measured rather than pressure measured, making brake modulation a nightmare to do accurately and be good at both real world, and USB wheel controller pedals levels. The same applies for exiting the corners, as long as you have more power available than you can use (always the case when maintaining the edge of the traction circle at a corner exit).

None the less, I would also like a realistic speedo, so however it is measured, as long as an implementation for it on a real world car in mass production/race converted format has one, I'm happy. The rest was simply a side note, one considerably larger than the post.

[BlakjeKaas]

BTW: People with patch U have an advantage though...
they can see how fast they are REALLY going and can brake untill they are doing 80 at pits, while now, (when I lock my wheels) I can't see the speed and have a chance of getting DT...

(Hopefully it's the one or the other in patch V, else there will be advantages at that too...)

I'm not saying that it sucks though...

[Dethred]

Correction:

Some cars measure the speed at the differential, some at the gearbox, some at the driving wheels, and some from the non-driven wheels.

I have a GPS speedometer which measures the speed without being mechanically attached to the car.

Please research and reference before making generalised claims.



I'm sorry. Name any Real vehicle similar to any car in LFS that gets its speed anywhere than from the differential.

BMW? rear diff. VSS,
FWD Hondas, Mazdas, Toyotas, etc, all measured at front diff.
Porsche: Differential
etc etc etc.

It is the easiest measure of speed, avoiding wires running near axles and moving axles, and suspension parts. My dad's old 99 S320 Mercedes... rear diff VSS. His Lexus GS300 rear diff VSS. My friend's Formula, rear Diff VSS. Generalizations are made to avoid having to write out whole paragraphs like I just have, to keep people from trying to point out that there is that 1/1000 vehicle model that uses something other than the differential.:pillepall

[z3r0c00l]

A lot of cars pre 1990 are measured from the non driven wheels, there are not any wires involved, there are however cables etc. Taking it from the differential is newer technology.

Generalizations save time ONLY when talking to stupid people.

by the way, you asked me to name any real vehicle similar to any car in LFS that didn't take the speedometer off the differential (takes it from the front left wheel), well here it is:

Transmission Renault five-speed manual
Suspension front: Double wishbones with coil springs, telescopic shocks, and anti-roll bar
rear:Semi-trailing arms, coil springs, and telescopic shocks
Tires front:195/60HR14
rear:Goodyear NCT 235/60HR15
Brakes front: Discs
rear: Discs
Horsepower 145 bhp @ 5,500 rpm
Torque 162 lb ft @ 2,750 rpm


http://csh.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/delorean.jpg


"Oh no! I'm about to plug my speedometer cable into something other than the rear diff, this needs MOAR JIGGAWATTS!!11"
http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes3/back2thefutureone108.jpeg

[BlakjeKaas]

There is a 'bug' though

IF you put limiter on, and you spin your wheels, your speedo tells you that you are going over 80, while your limiter limits it to do not more than 80...
so maybe in patch V you can maybe do It lik it will only go 80...

AND another bug (don't know if told already) of you are in a BF1 and you do TC off, Limiter ON, you put in in N, full throttle, into 1, still full throttle, keep it straight, and you get Drive-thru...

*cough*

just to bump actually, because they are 'bugs' (sort of...)

[Impreza WRX]

Maybe it is reading speed at the fastest spinning wheel.

WARNING! DIFFERENTIAL THEORY!

In an open differential, You have this: -|>X<|- The >< are the sun gears atached to the axles and the X are the two planet gears attached to the differential. When moving, the planet gears push on the sun gears, which turns the axles. With 100% slipping, the planet gears roll around the non slipping sun gear, and turn the slipping sun gear at twice the speed of the differential. So the slipping wheel is going twice as fast at the same RPM than it would not slipping at 100% slippage.

Now, we all race with LSDs, so 100% slippage won't happen, but the idea is there. With the speed measured at the diff, if a wheel is slipping awful fast, the speedo speed won't be very far off.

[BlakjeKaas]

Maybe it is reading speed at the fastest spinning wheel.


well, it must be that it won't go faster than 80..?
so why does it do more than 80? (if you believe the speedo)
I mean, it must be locked so the wheels won't turn faster than 80...

And the BF1 just get's a drive through WITH limiter on (and traction control off) so that isn't right either.

[branney]

In an open differential, You have this: -|>X<|- The >< are the sun gears atached to the axles and the X are the two planet gears attached to the differential. When moving, the planet gears push on the sun gears, which turns the axles. With 100% slipping, the planet gears roll around the non slipping sun gear, and turn the slipping sun gear at twice the speed of the differential. So the slipping wheel is going twice as fast at the same RPM than it would not slipping at 100% slippage.

so on a normal fwd (built in last 15 years) would the speedometer read the average of the 2 wheel speeds during a wheelspin?

[Impreza WRX]

Yeah. I guess that's what all the technobabble boils down to.

Note that I said "Cars measure...", NOT "ALL cars measure..." there will always be exceptions as in 1/10000 cars use a different method.

[PingerS]

Just lock this damn thread. Cars can measure any way you can think of. What's the big deal? They're all realistic ways of measuring speed.

If you don't like it, too bad. Life will go on. LFS will go on.

[N I K I]

Hi admins (Scrawen) and other racers!

Can someone tell me can I off this new imprvement about speedmeter. I use digital speedo and I did'nt use any other testing pach, so I have used U pach. Now I'm instaled U30 and my speedo show me wrong speed. When I'm driving 225 km/h he shows 230 km/h. I know that real cars speedo lies to but I have used to thise speed and now it is a problem when it smow me some now speed. So I'm asking you can I turn this thing off somehow or I must drive now whit this kind of speedo? And in next paches will speedo lie too?
I have no other problems all other works perfect! :D

Thanks for help :thumb:

[Blackout]

How do you know it's lying?

[PLAYLIFE]

How do you know it's lying?

I'm guessing he drives the same setup the same way. If you've done that for a few months you can be pretty sure you are correct. Can anyone verify this?

It could also be he is viewing his replay with different patches.

P.S. Is it possible he has wheel spin at that speed, or wind blowing from behind?

[tristancliffe]

And you might be doing 225km/h on the straights, but your tyres always have a slip angle. I don't know if the rolling circumference of the tyres changing with speed is also modelled (I'd guess not, but I'm normally wrong when I do that).

Both of these effects would cause a speedo to over-read.

[BlakjeKaas]

Maybe he was going 230 normally, and the speedo gave 225 with the new patch...

Could be true, if the differential has an accurate setting on only 1 setting with the tyre pressure or something...

quote bump

There is a 'bug' though

IF you put limiter on, and you spin your wheels, your speedo tells you that you are going over 80, while your limiter limits it to do not more than 80...
so maybe in patch V you can maybe do It lik it will only go 80...

AND another bug (don't know if told already) of you are in a BF1 and you do TC off, Limiter ON, you put in in N, full throttle, into 1, still full throttle, keep it straight, and you get Drive-thru...

[arco]

Why not provide an option to either use the new or the old method of measuring speed? :shy: That way people can choose for themselves what to use. Oh, and my real car, a turbo rwd car, measures speed from the gearbox. :)

[col]

..
Generalizations save time ONLY when talking to stupid people.


well, I guess Generalizations are an ideal choice when talking to you z3e0c00l.

Anyone with such a ****ing stupid and downright dangerous statement as this in their sig doesn't deserve anything else:
If you think I'm too close behind you on a UK road it is because I'm lining up for an overtake, and I'm not too close because at the speed we're both doing, that distance is my reaction/action time, and my brakes and tyres are better than yours, and I can use them to their full potential.
what a load of Bull Shit. I only hope it's you that dies, not the poor innocent folks that you crash into.

Col

[Aquilifer]

I've noticed bit the same thing. Like driving fox about 215.xxkm/h (looking the speedo), the real speed is something like 213.xx km/h. Assuming insim gives the true speed.

It doesn't hurt me, because it is like it works in real cars. Besides i watch rev meter mostly if i watch any meters at all.

[Hyperactive]

It is just more realistic. Real life car speedos show a little higher speed value than the actual speed is (was it something to do with law etc...).

About having 2 options for the speedo, the realistic one and the non-realistic one. All I have to say is, come on!

+357634867856984 for the realistic one. I'm happy with the more realistic one!!!11

[N I K I]

--How do you know it's lying?--

I know becouse, I verify in ASF (Analise for Speed) and it shows me old speeds. This imrovment is good:thumb: , but admins now don't change this in new pach, we will use to this now and let it stay like this:D like in real car.

Cool improvmen:smileypul, more realistic:D

[z3r0c00l]

Col :

Well excuse me for thinking speed limits and distances should be based on braking distances and reaction times, I've got a motorbike, it stops a lot quicker than whatever is in front.

As for the inferences that my intellect is below, well at least below yours, perhaps you should check out some vehicle dynamics books from your local library, in which you will find the maths for braking distances, inertia, drag etc. At which point you can re-evaluate my previous sig against this new found knowledge. Admittedly a lot of my forum sigs are rants about other motorists, but when you do 100 miles plus on a daily basis, and people can't even hold their own lane round a rounder-bout, nor make use of their new found GPS system without staring at it too much of the time, even while joining roads via an on ramp, you get pretty sick of it, and seeing as this is a driving forum, quite a few people agree, or at least, have something to say about it also.

You go ahead and stick to the distances and velocities set up by testing an 80s Cortina, or whatever it was they used if you want the added safety margin, that's your choice. If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to pm me, or perhaps repost in the off topic section if you would like the rest of the forum to see.


On Topic:

Realism has to be the paramount concern, this is a simulator, you could have a GPS speedo if you want to be accurate ignoring wheel speed, this typically reads 2-10 mph slower than the car speedo... something to do with the curvature in the earth and the inaccuracies in speedo technology.

Perhaps only digital mode for that though, and it would probably be a small box placed on the windshield with a sucker or something, I don't think very many cars have them built in!

I understand ignoring any information presented to you could be a mistake... but if you're going as fast as the car can go, speed at which the wheels are spinning, is not how fast the car is moving, tyres ALWAYS give their maximum traction as they begin to slip, whether that's longitudinal or lateral, at which point they may even be providing more traction than the downward force applied to them, so the wheel speed, especially given the effects of the differential and each wheel possibly moving at a very different speed due to traction differences on the road surface, could easily be 15% in any given direction, and not consistently so as you modulate the brakes/gas to maximize the traction circle...

Usually all this is happening and I'm already focused on my next brake point/apex, by the time you get to the apex of any given corner, you've done the damage if you've chosen the wrong line, knowing how badly you've done doesn't help unless you're trying to refine your line by making changes, but for that you'd want to use analyze for speed anyway because it gives such a superior illustration.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Yikes.

VSS on transmission:
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl366a-lib.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl573a-lib.htm
http://experts.about.com/q/Chrysler-Repair-807/speed-sensor-location-1.htm
http://www.classicoldsmobile.com/forums/aurora/1894-speed-sensor.html

There's a billion more where that came from!

It may seem like on a FWD or a rear engine / rear drive (Porsche) that it's on the differential... But obviously there isn't a "drive shaft" when the differential is basically part of the transmission ;). Technically it's always measuring the output speed of the transmission, which is the same as the input side of the differential - so look at it how you want. I would like to see a picture of front engined rear drive car with the VSS in the differential. Why on Earth would they waste money running something from the rear of the vehicle all the way up to the front when the info is available at the transmission?

Any slipping driven wheel will cause the speedo to rise since it's of course measured at the "drive shaft". It won't tell you how fast the wheel is spinning very accurately since the differential is spinning the one wheel far faster than it would spin both wheels (IE it thinks the "not spinning" wheel is the "inside one" and the "outside one" will spin much faster).

As far as I am aware, no road cars in recent history measure speed at a non-driven wheel.

And you might be doing 225km/h on the straights, but your tyres always have a slip angle. I don't know if the rolling circumference of the tyres changing with speed is also modelled (I'd guess not, but I'm normally wrong when I do that).

Both of these effects would cause a speedo to over-read.

The slight inaccuracy in high power:weight ratio cars is as Tristan said simply due to the slip ratio.

The more resistance the more pronouced this should be. At high speeds there is still high tractive effort but very little increase in velocity due to drag.

However expanding radius tires would cause the speedo to read slower than true speed; not higher ;) (so it's not that!)

[Impreza WRX]

My $50 Holux USB G-Mouse GPS reads MPH almost exact at highway speeds. My Civic has a crapped out dash, and the speedo reads 5 MPH faster than it should at every speed. How do I know? 1: Cops with radar guns. 2: YOUR SPEED MPH signs. 3: GPS. When all three other methods conclude that my speedo is reading 5 fast I think the speedo is reading 5 fast. I used my GPS in other vehicles as well, and the speed in MPH is spot on elsewhere.

[Dethred]

A lot of cars pre 1990 are measured from the non driven wheels, there are not any wires involved, there are however cables etc. Taking it from the differential is newer technology.

Generalizations save time ONLY when talking to stupid people.

by the way, you asked me to name any real vehicle similar to any car in LFS that didn't take the speedometer off the differential (takes it from the front left wheel), well here it is:

Transmission Renault five-speed manual
Suspension front: Double wishbones with coil springs, telescopic shocks, and anti-roll bar
rear:Semi-trailing arms, coil springs, and telescopic shocks
Tires front:195/60HR14
rear:Goodyear NCT 235/60HR15
Brakes front: Discs
rear: Discs
Horsepower 145 bhp @ 5,500 rpm
Torque 162 lb ft @ 2,750 rpm


http://csh.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/delorean.jpg


"Oh no! I'm about to plug my speedometer cable into something other than the rear diff, this needs MOAR JIGGAWATTS!!11"
http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes3/back2thefutureone108.jpeg

Congrats on identifying my question and answering it with hog wash. I really haven't noticed any cars in LFS with more in common with the Delorean than having four wheels. I guess naming a car that many people will never see in thier lifetimes (I've seen two, sat in one.).:really:

[DragonCommando]

I'v actualy worked on many cars with different configurations. Rear wheel drives, Rear engine rear drives (Fiat mini bus thing from the 70's), front wheel drives. Every one I have worked on measures the speed at the transmission. To measure it at the dif would be a waste of cable, there would also be just that much more cable to get damaged.
Even my dads 89' 280zx measured the speed at the transmission, so measuring it at the dif is pointless, and measuring it at the front wheels is an Idea taken from older motor bikes, where the measuring device is attached to the front drum, and uses it to measure the RPM of the front wheel thus giving you the speed of the bike. (I know this because I took my friends 79' honda dirt bike apart.)

The only car I can think of right now that measured at the non-driven wheels was the Delorean (already mentiond). It measured from the Front left or right wheel, can't remember which side. but it was an RR setup so they decided it was the best way to get the speed. It measured slightly high when steering away from the measured side though, so that doesn't give you any better accuracy than the trans mounted ones.

I may only be 18 but I'm a grease monkey and love my cars.
The number of Speedos I'v ripped out of cars in enough to know what I'm talking about.

[Davo]

And you dug up a 3 month old thread to tell us this bec ause...

[Blowtus]

And you dug up a 3 month old thread to tell us this bec ause...

What's wrong with 3 month old threads? If all the requests for wet weather and nos could stay in singular threads the world would be a happier place :tilt:

[Rotary]

I'm sorry. Name any Real vehicle similar to any car in LFS that gets its speed anywhere than from the differential.

...



Challanged accepted.

The RX7, to which the XRGT Turbo is similar, speedo cable is mounted in the transmisssion.

Frankly, does it really matter that much?

DragonCommando: Porsche do measure speed at the differential, but my experience is similar.. being that all cars I've owned/worked on have always had the cable running from the transmission.

(oops didn't realise its an old thread!)

[theirishnoob]

well as we all know speed o meters are measured at the transmission ( well im a part time mechanic so im on the right track ) tho some cars May differ but its unlikly

[Haduken]

I'm sorry. Name any Real vehicle similar to any car in LFS that gets its speed anywhere than from the differential.


Mi 1990's ex-car Opel Calibra 16v got speed signal by gearbox and had a analogic speedometer. Now I have a 1994's Opel Calibra Turbo 4x4 and this car get speed signal by ABS sensors in the wheels, and has electronic speedometer.

IMO the electronic speedometer with wheel signal it's far away more accurate than analogic speed signal by gearbox. With the turbo, when I get 220km/h by speedometer, GPS shows 216km/h. With my ex-16v when I got 240km/h by speedometer, GPS showed 220km/h :pillepall

[cbalbinot]

Well, let me be very straight forward:

I like to look at the Speedo, it is useful to me. I play on a 17" notebook screen and I'm at least 50cm from the screen, with the analog i CANT read the speed, so if im leaving the pits with a car without pit limiter, i'll loose alot of time.

I know that for those playing on 29" monitors it is all right, but some mortals dont have those and would love to be able to consult the actual speed on the car, so i plead the Devs, put the Digital Speedo back in the game for all cars!

[three_jump]

Analog speedo is more than you need when you would at least be able to read it. (I out myself now in not having tested the latest x34+ patches, so I can't say how they look now)

Basicly you only need some kind of (colored) mark where the pit limit speed is, similar to how its done here: http://www.classiccarfair.com/1983_mb500secamg_dash_572x430.jpg

I still think that this would cure most problems... (dunno how it would be to code... )

[blackbird04217]

That would be on the art side of things, but can someone answer why I just read a slew of year old news for 2 posts, and one was an opinion about the old posts that are irrelevant now? I get that patch y (or the test patches) have changed the speedo again but theres probably 50 other threads about the speedo. Anyway, at least the search functionality has been used and about the digital speedo, DON'T put it back in, although I can say the above post about adding the colored marker would be good as going through pit-lane I can not seem to stay at the right speed (without keeping an eye on the speedo here and there). I could probably drive 25 and get rear ended quickly by the next person, but thats no fun!

[senn]

smartest solution to a problem evar. marked analog gauge would be an awesome fix (and i would think fairly easy? devs?)

[Breizh]

You should be able to do it by ear.

[blackbird04217]

You should be able to do it by ear.

A 50rpm change (which is about what it would be to be at speed in pits / not speeding in pits) is not as easy to detect by ear. If your talking about shifting, then yes that is easily done by ear.

[Ger Roady]

You should be able to do it by ear.
Yes , you are absolutely right :thumb: ,
but ... if I lean my ear on the monitor i can't hear anything :shrug:

maybe i sit on the wrong side of it :really:

[JTbo]

A 50rpm change (which is about what it would be to be at speed in pits / not speeding in pits) is not as easy to detect by ear. If your talking about shifting, then yes that is easily done by ear.

You defineatly can't drive withing 50rpm IRL either, not even if you would keep eye on speedometer, there is no need for such thing, you are not supposed to drive 79kph exact on pits, 75-79, something like that, situation is same for all and if you loose race because of that, there might be something else you could do to make up that time loss.

[Jimmy_Lemon]

btw as iv posted in the interface thread, from x33 to x35 it made speedos look squished etc which every one knows, but then the patch after squashed it even more even tho it said it was changed in the changelog :S

[March Hare]

Use the tacho and gear! it can't be that hard.

I know that in my set 2nd gear and below 5000rpm will keep the speed below 80kph.

What makes it so difficult for you lot? Are you stupid or something?

It takes only one bloody run through the pits to find out what gear and rpm produce the unvanted DT. Then you just keep it under that rpm.

The time you lose while driving through the pits at 75 instead of 79 is neglible. You lose much more in the first corner when you miss the apex because your tires are cold.

Why don't you want the digital speedo to show 1/10 too? Then you could drive through the pit at 79.9 and gain loads of valuable time.

[Breizh]

Blackbird, Ger Roady, I just tried it again to be sure, and I can definitely stay under 80kph by ear with an error margin of 2 or 3kph. I've got tinitis, so if I can do it, you should too.
And like March says, many cars can have first or second set to 80kph. Pretty simple.

[blackbird04217]

Wow I wasn't complaining about the new system just so all of the above know, I was agreeing with the color indicator, and disagreeing with being able to hear your speed well enough not to speed. I never said I cared that I am going 70kph in pits or anything because like said above, its not that much of a difference. Entering the pits at max speed can be made easier with the color indicator, I don't really mind either way. I was just agreeing, so please don't think that I am upset with the way things are.

[March Hare]

Note to self:
Keep reminding people that in English "you" is both singular and plural.

[Ger Roady]

If I have a tacho in my car, I should be able to read it, (not to hear) else it is worthless and can be removed.
I don't want to test my speed everytime I use a different setup. Remove the fuel per lap information, you don't need it because you are able to fill it up to the limit.:x
If we stay by analog tacho it should be colored ,because the main problem is more the entry speed in race conditions ,than the pit speed himself.

[March Hare]

Erm... If you(singular, referring to Ger Roady) can't see the tacho I suggest you(singular, referring to Ger Roady) go see an optician. Or are you(singular, referring to Ger Roady) referring to the speedo?

How much does your(singular, referring to Ger Roady) gearing differ between different sets for one track?

Come on! You(singular, referring to Ger Roady) can't be that lazy. You(plural) have to drive through the pits several times if you(plural) are making tweaks to your(plural) tyre pressure/camber/aero/ARB/brakes.

I know you(plural, this plural/singular thing is getting to be a pain in the keyboard) can do all this in the pit screen but it's a pain to warm up the tyres again and again. See how lazy I am? Still I can manage to drive through the pits once to determine a safe pit RPM.

[Ger Roady]

44904
:schwitz:

[tristancliffe]

44904
:schwitz:

Just drive with the needle a little lower than the 80 (assuming kmh) or between the 40 and the 60 (if mph).

Your speedo looks fine, and more than good enough to avoid pitlane speeding.

[JTbo]

Just drive with the needle a little lower than the 80 (assuming kmh) or between the 40 and the 60 (if mph).

Your speedo looks fine, and more than good enough to avoid pitlane speeding.

It is kph, 100 is easy to see, one before that is 80 and keeping needle under that is indeed what is needed.

If digital speedo would be in size and looks what aftermarket units are, then I would have not problem, but as it was huge as after Christmas sale ads, that was not really realistic. I think same applies to race cars now too, it is tad big in size.

IRL Renault Megane series had similar size gear indicator and I believe some WRC car had similar gear indicator, but speedo is rather impossible to see from videos.

Some that make kit cars are putting bicycle computer units in them to be used as speedo, again this size would be realistic.

[raif995]

I know how you all feel, coming out of a corner with wheelspin (I generally measure speed in and out of corners to optimize lap times) is an annoying problem and hopfully will be fixed in future patches (no more exit wheelspin yay!) WE CAN HOPE!

[Zen321]

I know how you all feel, coming out of a corner with wheelspin (I generally measure speed in and out of corners to optimize lap times) is an annoying problem and hopfully will be fixed in future patches (no more exit wheelspin yay!) WE CAN HOPE!

You bumped a year-old thread suggesting that there'll be no more exit wheelspin in future patches?
Did you know that the only way to prevent exit wheelspin is, and that's a ROUGH GUESS, get better on the throttle control ??

[Rotary]

First post and flamed... lol

At least he/she used the "search" button. There are other techniques for exit wheelspin and it's called Traction Control. Many cars (include top level racing machines) use a form of Traction Control and not just driver throttle control. :)

[senn]

i believe what raif was getting at is that the speedo reading the speed from the drivewheels was annoying (ie wheelspin makes speed displayed inaccurate from the actual speed of the car) However being as that is how the speedo now works in LFS, as opposed to the original way of just measuring the cars overall speed in space, i doubt that it will ever be reverted, altho an option for such a setting would be cool, but again, i doubt that will happen either :)

[ssm]

I wear a speedo.


Edit: nevermind...

[Dygear]

Hyundia Elentra (2003) [FWD], when tires front tyres slip on the snow that is outside, the Speedo increases as it would if the vehicle was also increasing speed. So it's either taken from the front wheels or the drive train.

[kcvpr]

In real life, if your wheels were spinning, should one really be looking at their speedometer? :scratchch:smileypul:razz:

[senn]

its hard no to notice when its swinging past 160kmh and you know you're not going anywhere near that fast :)

[SRR Marty]

irl the speedo is connected to the front tyres. i have noticed that in several fwd cars i drove. locking brakes dropped the speedo down to zero, spinning wheels (in 1st gear on snow or ice) lets it jump up.

thats why i always was wondering why the RWD cars in LFS the speedo seems to work different, when revving up and letting the rear tyres slip, the speedo goes up, when using the e-brake, the speedo goes down.

maybe someone of the devs can explain how the speedo works in LFS.

[Droemel]

irl the speedo is connected to the front tyres. i have noticed that in several fwd cars i drove. locking brakes dropped the speedo down to zero, spinning wheels (in 1st gear on snow or ice) lets it jump up.

thats why i always was wondering why the RWD cars in LFS the speedo seems to work different, when revving up and letting the rear tyres slip, the speedo goes up, when using the e-brake, the speedo goes down.

maybe someone of the devs can explain how the speedo works in LFS.

Well, I'm not one of the Devs :D, but the speedo is linked to the gearbox, which means it doesn't matter if the car's a FWD, RWD or AWD. The speedo just shows the "speed" of the driven tires (with a locked diff al least, with an open diff it might be different of course) :).

[Whiskey]

irl, cars fitted with ABS, the speedo uses the average speed of all the wheels.
If you have the value of the speed of each wheel why don't use it to to made the speedo as accurate as possible?

when i say irl i means every renault car since 199x fitted with ABS

[Rotary]

Most cars I've owned have measured speed from the gearbox. I know this because in most of them I've changed the cable myself that goes from the Speedo to the gearbox.

With my current car I have no idea where it measures speed from. I haven't looked into it. I don't really care though, as long as it's accurate enough so I don't get fined! :tilt:

[Whiskey]

Most cars I've owned have measured speed from the gearbox. I know this because in most of them I've changed the cable myself that goes from the Speedo to the gearbox.

With my current car I have no idea where it measures speed from. I haven't looked into it. I don't really care though, as long as it's accurate enough so I don't get fined! :tilt:

Well, that's right for cars where measurement and display is mechanical, but when it's done electrically it's taken from several points thinking of accurate and reliable system.

[ssm]

In real life, if your wheels were spinning, should one really be looking at their speedometer? :scratchch:smileypul:razz:

You inadvertently do... I mean like.. I would be going no were on a hill, so I have nothing to do as I have the pedal to the firewall and in top gear...

[DragonCommando]

Just about every car in production today measures the dash displayed speed from the transmission, the wheel speed sensors are reserved for ABS and traction control. I have changed the speed sensor on alot of newer cars.

On cable driven cars it was either taken from the transmission or from one of the non driven wheels. The only examples I can think of right now that take it from a wheel are the DMC12 and older porsches. Other than that, they mostly take it from the transmission.

[Whiskey]

Just about every car in production today measures the dash displayed speed from the transmission, the wheel speed sensors are reserved for ABS and traction control. I have changed the speed sensor on alot of newer cars.

On cable driven cars it was either taken from the transmission or from one of the non driven wheels. The only examples I can think of right now that take it from a wheel are the DMC12 and older porsches. Other than that, they mostly take it from the transmission.

I had to change right transmission in my '99 Clio after break a joint. The old one has XX marks and the new one was different (they say me that were compatible @#@#) and has YY marks for the speed sensor. As a result: ABS and speedo went crazy.

I don't know if other cars works like this, but as much as i know, renault cars do.

[Riel]

Just about every car in production today measures the dash displayed speed from the transmission, the wheel speed sensors are reserved for ABS and traction control. I have changed the speed sensor on alot of newer cars.

On cable driven cars it was either taken from the transmission or from one of the non driven wheels. The only examples I can think of right now that take it from a wheel are the DMC12 and older porsches. Other than that, they mostly take it from the transmission.

??

Well, nowadays every wheel is just measured apart. The signal gets put on the car's databus. Every component that needs it gets it from there: abs, engine control, traction control, ESP, stability, whatever.

The speedsignal from differential is just not relevant anymore. That's for old cars ...

[d6nn]

i've heard that most cars measure speed from the rear bumper :shrug::x

[Alles]

well the speedo for me are ok. i use high resolution and 8x AA and i can see it rather well. i only ever look at it while driving in pitlane. One thing that bothers me and is not speedo is the revs display in FOX. its red all the way from center out. It would be nice if it was more colorfull, maybe from green to red.