Logitech G25 - general discussion

[Krane]

<shill from=http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2217,CONTENTID=11867> LINK DEAD
Simulator-grade racing realism.

The Logitech® G25 Racing Wheel offers incredibly precise driving control with dual-motor force feedback, 900-degree steering and a six-speed gated shifter. Premium materials are used throughout: stainless steel paddle shifters and pedals, soft leather grip surfaces, and brushed metal wheel spoke accents. The 11-inch wheel, dual force-feedback motors and metal-framed pedal assembly provide solid road feel where you want it, and the 14 programmable buttons and sequential shifting option provide flexibility when you need it.

The limited-edition Logitech G25 Racing Wheel will be available in the U.S. and Europe beginning in October. [ed. 2006]

USD 299.99

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<shill from=http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=NEWS_VIEW_POPUP_TYPE&newsId=20060509005287&ndmHsc=v2*A1144580400000*B1147225411000*DgroupByDa te*J2*L1*N1000837*Zg25&refreshParent=true&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view_popup> Bugmenot required http://www.bugmenot.com/view/home.businesswire.com
LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 9, 2006--Today at the Electronic Entertainment Exposition (E3), Logitech (SWX:LOGN)(NASDAQ:LOGI) unveiled its most advanced gaming wheel ever, the Logitech(R) G25 Racing Wheel, enabling people to bring the most lifelike racing experience into the home. But amateurs beware: The limited-edition G25 wheel's uncanny realism could lead to moments of extreme exhilaration and fear.



A member of the company's extreme-performance G-series family of peripherals for PC gamers, the Logitech G25 wheel offers advanced features which, until now, could be found only in specialized or custom-made racing simulators that sometimes cost thousands of dollars to assemble. These features include a six-speed gated shifter and clutch pedal; two high-torque force-feedback motors; an 11-inch wheel; and a full 900 degrees of rotation. The wheel, shifter and pedals are made with premium materials such as stainless steel and leather, delivering the look and feel of parts from a race car cockpit.

"We're helping people bring the race car into their home," said Ruben Mookerjee, Logitech's director of product marketing for interactive entertainment. "The G25 wheel will take expert gamers to places they've never been. It will make people forget they are in front of their PC, and it will put them in the pole position at Indianapolis, Monza or Brands Hatch race tracks."

Six-Speed Shifter and Clutch Pedal

The Logitech G25 Racing Wheel is the company's first to include a six-speed gated shifter, complete with a push-down reverse gear, offering a new level of control. Now racers can quickly shift into any gear as they decelerate going into turns and accelerate out of them -- rather than cycling through gears sequentially or hoping an automatic transmission selects the most appropriate gear. Advanced driving techniques such as heel-and-toe downshifting are made possible with the included clutch pedal.

Two-Motor Force Feedback

Logitech, which has sold more force-feedback wheels than any other company, introduced the industry's first two-motor force-feedback mechanism with the G25 wheel console, providing stronger and more precise feedback. With a second motor, the directional forces are more realistic and evenly distributed throughout the wheel -- drivers will feel everything from the banks in the road to impact with walls, structures and other cars. The two-motor system is also much quieter than other force-feedback solutions.

Sturdy Design, Premium Materials

The 11-inch wheel and the shift knob are wrapped in leather, providing comfortable grips over extended periods of intense racing. The wheel's spokes and two paddle shifters are made of stainless steel, and the pedals consist of stainless-steel faces and steel frames. The pedal platform includes rubber feet that adhere to hardwood floors and a unique carpet grip system, ensuring that the pedals won't shift or slide across the floor during a close race to the finish line. Both the shifter and steering console feature secure clamping systems and can be easily attached to a table or desktop.

900-Degree Steering, Advanced Controls

The G25 wheel turns 900 degrees lock-to-lock, much like a typical race car, allowing drivers to navigate hairpin turns with greater accuracy. And with anti-backlash gearing, there is no slack in the steering response, making any race a smooth, realistic and quiet experience. The wheel also features 12 programmable buttons -- four buttons on the wheel, and eight buttons and a directional pad on the shifter -- allowing gamers to put the most important controls where they want them.

Game and Platform Support

The Logitech G25 Racing Wheel is compatible with current racing titles, such as rFactor(TM) and Live for Speed, as well as several other PC racing titles currently in development. The wheel can also be used with any PlayStation(R)2 game that is compatible with other Logitech force-feedback wheels, including the Logitech(R) Driving Force(TM) and Logitech(R) Driving Force(TM) Pro.

For PC and PlayStation 2 games that don't support the six-speed shifting mode, racers can switch the gearbox into sequential shifting mode, which is supported by almost all driving games. A complete list of games that support force-feedback wheels, 900-degree steering, and the six-speed shifter can be found on the G25 product information page at www.logitech.com.

Pricing and Availability

The limited-edition Logitech G25 Racing Wheel will be available online at www.logitech.com and through select retailers in the U.S. and Europe beginning in October. Its suggested retail price in the U.S. is $299.99.
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http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/10/logitech-launches-steering-wheels-and-g-series-inputs/ (ty Kid)
http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=68257&vid=5 Very high resolution picture of the wheel
http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=68258&vid=5 Very high resolution picture of the shifter


Picture of the bottom: http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=15476&d=1156544723
Videos: http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=15475&d=1156544413 (crappy quality)
LINK DEAD Any one still have it? http://59.186.253.11/movie/g25review.wmv really good video comparing DFP and G25. (posted by Tweaker in this thread (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=230134#post230134))
Pictures of the inside: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15104 http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1045090#post1045090
Misc:
Diagrams for bolting the G25 to desk or cockpit (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=232459#post232459)



Ok, it's nowhere near the pricetag the multiturn BRD Speed 7 wheel has, but at that price it really should have better build quality than DFP.

I guess I should start saving... :scratchch

[spankmeyer]

Damn hippie, I was coming here to post that news! :mad:











A bit pricey wheel, eh? Looks good on paper, though. :shrug:

[Matrixi]

Me too. :( Anyway, I'm definately getting that wheel as long as the pedals/shifter don't suck.

[Jakg]

damn! i want it! if only i could afford it...

[axus]

Looks damn good... also seems like they have looked at complaints about their previous wheels as well as what's good with them and made the best they could. I hope the same goes for the pedals. I'm getting that if its good. Don't care how much it costs (well I do, but it won't affect me getting it). :)

[KiDCoDEa]

beautiful. spot on. just wanna see the pedals.
why limited edition?

[sgt.flippy]

Lots of people declared me crazy spending 130 EUR on a gaming wheel... What will they say when I want one that costs more than double? :scratchch

[Bob Smith]

Finally, a wheel at a decent price! Frankly the quality of the current mass-market wheel offerings isn't up to scratch, and the top end kit is in the four figure price bracket, and I'd rather get a real car for that. Perfectly priced for me, let's hope it's worth it. Logitech better hope it matches the hype. So far my G5 mouse is the monkeys doo-dahs...

[Tweaker]

You know, this seems like Logitech really noticed the Red MOMO's popularity. It is about time they make another performance wheel.

I don't mind that the buttons are on the shifter, the only active buttons I use on the wheel are look left and right. However things like handbrake and stuff might have to be elsewhere :shrug:

But still, Act labs has a shifter, and now Logitech made something that looks pretty nice. I'd really like to test this wheel before buying it. And yeah, I wonder what the pedals look like.

It's a 900 degree wheel, and dual-force FF???

stainless steel paddle shifters and pedals

[MyBoss]

It's a 900 degree wheel, and dual-force FF???


Read the article and you will find answers :tilt:

[Tweaker]

Yeah I read it, sounds good to me. Would like to see the pedals too, since it has a clutch pedal aswell.

To be honest, the price isn't all that bad. Back in the day, I bought my Red MOMO for a steal price of $160 USD, but the retail was $200 USD always. I thought that was a lot to spend for a wheel, but it was worth it. And usually the expensive stuff from Logitech is always worth it, I've bought some of their expensive equipment, and love it.

But think of the entire deal. A nice wheel, a nice shifter + button controls, and a 3 pedal set. That $300 pricetag isn't so bad to be honest. I just hope the build quality is like my Red MOMO.

[Shotglass]

...depending on how smooth the wheel action is. If it's notchy like just about every other FFB wheel then I'll stick with my DFP.

one of those pages claims it will have anti backlash cogs so it might feel better than other wheels

[Arkanen]

I definetely start saving for it, some people don't care about price as long as product is worth it and it looks like it will be. I like my DFP but there are some cons, and Logitech haven't got anything better that could please more demanding people. I just hope it will also support PS3, would be shame if GT5 wouldn't work with this babe :P 100% worth the money, whats bother me is that limited edition :( it could be hard to get it, maybe they don't except that many people will bought it, and i think many fans of console and pc racing will be interested - its very good deal h-shifter, good wheel, clutch....

[MyBoss]

Yeah I read it, sounds good to me. Would like to see the pedals too, since it has a clutch pedal aswell.

To be honest, the price isn't all that bad. Back in the day, I bought my Red MOMO for a steal price of $160 USD, but the retail was $200 USD always. I thought that was a lot to spend for a wheel, but it was worth it. And usually the expensive stuff from Logitech is always worth it, I've bought some of their expensive equipment, and love it.

But think of the entire deal. A nice wheel, a nice shifter + button controls, and a 3 pedal set. That $300 pricetag isn't so bad to be honest. I just hope the build quality is like my Red MOMO.


Yup, I have a DFP and the quality is great. If I ever am going to buy this though, I want to have a spin first.

[Kajojek(PL)]

I cant wait.

[Zoltuger]

looks like it only has 6 gears... problems for BF1 drivers, or will you stick to paddle shifting?
hopefully it doesn't suffer from the same pedal problems as the black momo

[Gabkicks]

i dont think any modern f1 cars use an h shifter anyways:razz:

[Tweaker]

When I owned the Act Labs shifter, it wasn't even useful for the cars with short gear ratios... was slower really. The shifter would only be useful for the typical 6 speed road/race cars. For cars that have faster shifting overall, the wheel has paddles, so might as well use those :).

[xapexcivicx]

Every sim racer's wet dream...

[Tweaker]

The part I like compared to my Red MOMO is that the wheel is actually a full circle. The red momo really restricts your hands to the 3-9 position because of the flat bottom part. The fact that this wheel is a leather 900 degree wheel and looks to be quite similar to the Red MOMO, it has me thinking of buying it :) Or asking for a late Birthday or early X-Mas present :D

[StanleyCarter]

Perfect Sim Racer gaming wheel!! :thumb:

I was struggling whether I should get a DFP for the past several months, knowing the wheel doesn't has an extra pedal for clutch really bugs me (and I really want a clutch pedal so bad)

When I read the article about this G25 Wheel, I was blown away, not only does it has a clutch pedal, but also a very nice shifter (from the screenshot it seems like you can even switch between sequential and manual, that's awesome), it's definitely every sim racer's dream toy, can't wait for it to be released and actually read some reviews about it.

I'll be saving money from now on, if the thing is really that good as what it stated in the article, I am so getting one. :D:D:D

[Tweaker]

I keep pondering if I will buy this though. My red momo suits me just fine, but many things with this G25 are irresistible.

The ONLY setback is the 2 wheel buttons. I would only be able to use look left/right for those and that's it. Pit limiter and all that other stuff would have to be on the shifter :( But I guess that isn't that bad.

I really think 4 buttons on the front wouldn't hurt, plenty of room for it.

[okijuhans]

I buy this to have fun.

The shifter is most interesting feature :nana:

[RacingSimFan]

Looks like the shifter unit is not attached to the wheel which makes it possible to put it on a stool or lower side table to simulate where the shifter would be in a real car.:smileypul

The gated H-shifter is perfect for NASCAR games where a 4-speed h-pattern is still the norm, and also for the 4 and 5-speed LFS road cars but sequential stick or paddles will be standard for most of the faster race cars.

I was thinking long and hard about getting a DFP but now I'll have to save up for this bad boy!

Now if the guys at Logitech are really smart, they'll make it possible for the shifter knob to be unscrewed off the handle so you can put a custom knob like an 8-ball or skull on!:headbang:

[Jakg]

nooooo!!!!! i really want it but i cant afford it unless i sell a kidney! oh well, bye bye kidney!

[spsamsp]

Looks lovely... But that is one expensive steering wheel...

[typhoonf1]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really ugly wheel compared to the DFP?

[Vykos69]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really ugly wheel compared to the DFP?
Just from the looks, I think you are the only one. brushed metal, alu and leather feel and look way better, than plastic and rubber.

[okijuhans]

If we use reverse as 7th gear then we can use this shifter for BF1, too.
I like leather and shifters behind the wheel :headbang:

[Matrixi]

Actually, it's the same diameter as the DFP isn't it? I think the main downside of the DFP is that it's still "toy" sized which makes the larger rotational range harder to use. A couple more inches would've been nice.

*wonders who will be first to make juvenile reference to that...*
I measured the diameter of my DFP and it's precisely 9.8", so the G25 is a tad larger. The thing is tho, since there is only two buttons in the G25 wheel itself, it might be easy to swap in a real race wheel like Nardi or OMP etc since you don't have to worry about losing all the buttons with the original wheel. :)

[Arkanen]

nooooo!!!!! i really want it but i cant afford it unless i sell a kidney! oh well, bye bye kidney!

Very good idea ]:-> oh well, bye bye sis! you're going on nice trip to emirates :bananalla

[TagForce]

They should stick an extra row of programmable leds on the wheel, and possibly a 3 or 4 row programmable LCD display... Just so Kegetys can keep busy for us.

In fact, I think that's one of the first things I'd do... Mod an LCD on this thing.

[Shotglass]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really ugly wheel compared to the DFP?

nope it really is ... looks like something you could build out of standard parts ... especially the buttons on the wheel

Actually, it's the same diameter as the DFP isn't it? I think the main downside of the DFP is that it's still "toy" sized which makes the larger rotational range harder to use. A couple more inches would've been nice.

its a bit larger but still too small to really make use of all that rotation imho

[StanleyCarter]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a really ugly wheel compared to the DFP?

DFP looks more like a toy to me....

this G25, well it resembles more to a real life sport steering wheel. I think it looks way cooler. :thumb:

[Krane]

Added pics of the pedals found from http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=253870

[zorrofox]

The gear shifter has a sequential option, presumably to make it work in just one plane.

[Jakg]

anybody think ill be able to get it any cheaper?

[Bob Smith]

Dunno, it seems pretty fairly priced to me. Depends what they consider "limited edition", I suspect plenty of hardcore simracers will be pre-ordering it as soon as they allow.

[vladimir]

nooooo!!!!! i really want it but i cant afford it unless i sell a kidney! oh well, bye bye kidney!and i just wrote on the german lfs forum that this is actually the first proper wheel that you can afford without having to sell a kidney. i think the price is fair. have you ever had a look on those BRDs, VPPs or whatnot...some of that stuff goes well into the 4 figure range...


its a bit larger but still too small to really make use of all that rotation imhodfp was about 24cm, this one is 30cm. now that might not sound like very much, but consider that its a circle, its quite a difference.

and i think its looks good, serious, not like a toy. i think real racecars don't have funky buttons either.

[sgt.flippy]

and i think its looks good, serious, not like a toy. i think real racecars don't have funky buttons either.

Just what I thought. When I think of a racecar, I don't really see a whole bunch of buttons on the wheel. Those two should be enough. And those 6 cm's really make a differenct, that's a pretty large wheel. I would like to have it... but yea, the price is reasonable, but you still have to be able to pay for it though.:schwitz:

[Jakg]

Just what I thought. When I think of a racecar, I don't really see a whole bunch of buttons on the wheelbut they dont need buttons to look right and left!

[Matrixi]

I think the G25 looks superb. How the hell can someone even say that the plastic rubber icky goo DFP looks better in any way? It looks more toy than a toy can look. :pillepall

[Jakg]

I think the G25 looks superb. How the hell can someone even say that the plastic rubber icky goo DFP looks better in any way? It looks more toy than a toy can look. :pillepalli love my Momo. Apart from the pedals. and i really am skint atm. But seeing that wheel... i want it soo much!

[sgt.flippy]

but they dont need buttons to look right and left!
That's what you use those two buttons for :D
What else would you want to use them for? I can't really think of a button I'd use that really needs to be on the wheel... Although I would have loved it if that big GT sign in the middle of my DFP was a button so I could map it to the horn... road raaaaaaage :D

[Shotglass]

I think the G25 looks superb. How the hell can someone even say that the plastic rubber icky goo DFP looks better in any way? It looks more toy than a toy can look. :pillepall

to me it looks like something built in average joes basement and not like a 300 euro wheel from a bigshot company

That's what you use those two buttons for :D
What else would you want to use them for? I can't really think of a button I'd use that really needs to be on the wheel

horn (as you already said) pit limiter, maybe some voice com button

[Blackout]

Friggin hell, this is what I have been waiting for! Wheel set with all you could want. It really sounds and looks good. Reminds me the time when the orginal momo came wich was all in leather and was way too expensive. Must start saving money....moooney...mmmm


Oh, must be mentioned here in the thread (cant be bothered to read it so much at this time of night) but LFS was mentioned there...coool! :D

[KiDCoDEa]

1) Dear Logitech. I will buy this wheel. But i would buy it even happier if u could have 5 buttons on wheel, instead of just 2.
A programmable lcd (alla g15) center of wheel would be nice also. Or just have the placeholder for that "upgrade extension", on the wheel. LFS can use it very well and surely other sims to follow.

thanks for a kickass product basically everyone was waiting for. midrange perfectness.

2) here is my revised proposal mockup. Hope you understand the 5th button important also for "next feature" lcd navigation (therefore its linked color). It could also be a dial (twist) for analogue "more or less" and pressable for "ok/next".
I dont mind paying extra X dolars or so to have these additional features.
Wish u good luck, and hope u enjoy this quick mockup:

http://www.slibe.com/images/aab0834a-Sliber.jpg

more pics http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/10/logitech-launches-steering-wheels-and-g-series-inputs/

[NotAnIllusion]

Beautiful wheel, shifter looks cool but shame the buttons will be a bit awkward. Finally a clutch pedal too; just one thing though about them, I wonder if they'll be aligned (& pressured?) correctly for heel-toeing.. Pity if they miss such a detail from such a sweet piece of kit.

I'll buy one either way! :D

[Matrixi]

KiDCoDEa, very nice mockup. :) Too bad logitech won't propably change the currently presented prototype very much.

[Tweaker]

KiDCoDEa, very nice mockup. :) Too bad logitech won't propably change the currently presented prototype very much.

It wouldn't hurt trying, because THAT would make an instant *cha-ching* coming from my wallet :)

[Chris_Kerry]

It looks a cracking wheel but will have it's flaws looking at the write-up. Why on earth can't logitech get it right!? The MOMO wheel with DFP pedals ( adding weight).

[StanleyCarter]

just one thing though about them, I wonder if they'll be aligned (& pressured?) correctly for heel-toeing.. Pity if they miss such a detail from such a sweet piece of kit.

Quote from Logitech News on G25: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/news/GB/EN,contentid=12020,crid=34

"Six-Speed Shifter and Clutch Pedal
The Logitech G25 Racing Wheel is the company´s first to include a six-speed gated shifter, complete with a push-down reverse gear, offering a new level of control. Now racers can quickly shift into any gear as they decelerate going into turns and accelerate out of them — rather than cycling through gears sequentially or hoping an automatic transmission selects the most appropriate gear. Advanced driving techniques such as heel-and-toe downshifting are made possible with the included clutch pedal."

Since Logitech is aware of heel-and-toe and claims its possible with their G25 pedals, I think heel-n-toe would work great on it with no problem. :D

[TagForce]

Beautiful wheel, shifter looks cool but shame the buttons will be a bit awkward. Finally a clutch pedal too; just one thing though about them, I wonder if they'll be aligned (& pressured?) correctly for heel-toeing.. Pity if they miss such a detail from such a sweet piece of kit.

I'll buy one either way! :D

Well, judging from the images that I saw (and are now indeed included in the first post) I'd say the pedals are:

1) pretty close together, but clutch and brake far enough apart to not get your feet tangled up...

2) Dampened with actual dampers instead of springs, and quite probably adjustable in position too since the dampers seem to be outside of the casing, and directly beneath the pedals.

I'll have a serious go on testing this one out first chance I get.

[Rtsbasic]

Hmm, I want, I want now! Time to sell the spare DFP before word gets about too much. Wonder if the shifter will feel nice like a homemade one, or cheap. It sure looks nice.

Anyone know a release date? Maybe between selling my Wingman Extreme joystick (shifter), MS sidewinder wheel (for clutch pedal) and spare DFP (logitech like giving me these) I'll be half way to affording it.

[KiDCoDEa]

well if its too late for this version, they can always pump out a "deluxe" version of it, like dat mockup with lcd (same lcd as in g15 keyboard but instead of ambar, cyan), and maybe FF shifter [hint] :)

[Jakg]

1) Dear Logitech. I will buy this wheel. But i would buy it even happier if u could have 5 buttons on wheel, instead of just 2.
A programmable lcd (alla g15) center of wheel would be nice also. Or just have the placeholder for that "upgrade extension", on the wheel. LFS can use it very well and surely other sims to follow.

thanks for a kickass product basically everyone was waiting for. midrange perfectness.

2) here is my revised proposal mockup. Hope you understand the 5th button important also for "next feature" lcd navigation (therefore its linked color). It could also be a dial (twist) for analogue "more or less" and pressable for "ok/next".
I dont mind paying extra X dolars or so to have these additional features.
Wish u good luck, and hope u enjoy this quick mockup:

http://www.slibe.com/images/aab0834a-Sliber.jpg

more pics http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/10/logitech-launches-steering-wheels-and-g-series-inputs/nice one! just a shame i cant afford it...

[Tweaker]

Hmmm strange.... Logitech had the wheel listed on their "Products" pages as soon as this was unveiled. But now they have taken it off.

Probably took it off because it wont be out yet for several months. But what if they took it down because they are "reviewing" the concept and putting more buttons on it :D :D

[bo-kristiansen]

Its great to see Logitech FINALLY starts to wake up,
and notice that their product's are used by other than 12 year olds on ps2. :thumb:

This wheel looks really great, and the build quality looks promising also.
...if only there were more buttons on the wheel instead of those on
the shifter. :(

My DFP buttons are ALL used, and it will be a big stepback to miss all those buttons on the wheel.

hmm...

I use autoclutch and paddles,
and have never tryed manual clutch and H shifter in LFS.
- some people says that u dont get better laptimes using it.
-maybe its just a gizmo that will be used for a moment when people have
plugged this wheel in, and then after a while they will go back to using
autoclutch and paddles.

:shrug:

[Alles]

But think of the entire deal. A nice wheel, a nice shifter + button controls, and a 3 pedal set. That $300 pricetag isn't so bad to be honest. I just hope the build quality is like my Red MOMO.

well in our country this wheel would cost like half of that 300$ more, and eaven 300$ is alot

[J_Matrix]

I'll probably buy this wheel once it will come out (after trying it, of course, 300bucks are not few) but i don't really understand why leaving 4 buttons only on the wheel!! It's stupid! I guess logitech has decided to lower the button number to avoid problems with too many cables running inside the center of the wheel and to have simpler mass production.. but i still think it's just..:pillepall
I also hope that they've understood all the problems that affected Momo & DFP and erased them in this new wheel.. expecially the pedals pots' problem!
Anyway, i hope it will be possible to combo the momo wheel with the new pedals and shifter.. this way it could be possible to have the buttons on the wheel and the ones on the shifter too:scratchch

[Tokartta]

SOLD.

My DFP pedals are on the way out atm (wobbly/noisy throttle signal, questionable fixability, using 8-odd year old MS ones for now), and I can already afford a G25 right now.

Logitech have very wisely placed themselves in the market with this; below is where the low quality plastic clad budget McWheel abominations reside, and above is the ludicrously expensive diamond encrusted, hand crafted, michelin star rated stuff (think ECCI etc).

Obviously you get what you pay for - it's hardly [include one of those super high end manufacturers here], but this is the only three pedal + shifter + decent wheel combo you're going to get without paying an enormous premium.

October is so far away :(!

[Blackout]

There should be more buttons on the wheel I agree. Realised that you couldnt really look left or right in LFS with that wheel, there is lots of things you want have mapped in your wheel. Please Logitech, more buttons, and programmable leds because the ledmod from Kegetys in LFS is so cool.

[dave_w11]

:D Looks very good.

And with anti-backlash gearing, there is no slack in the steering response, making any race a smooth, realistic and quiet experience


I hope this means that the high pitched grating whining noise of the DFP is gone!

[sgt.flippy]

I hope this means that the high pitched grating whining noise of the DFP is gone!


It should be.... That's why there are now two motors, together they can do the work better and with less noise. :thumb:

[TagForce]

It should be.... That's why there are now two motors, together they can do the work better and with less noise. :thumb:

That's IF they are using a good system for those 2 motors... Otherwise there will be more noise...

I doubt that though, because one of the devs on wingmanteam said the only really annoying thing with the DFP was the noise it made when turning at anything but granny speed.

[MAGGOT]

I hope this means that the high pitched grating whining noise of the DFP is gone!

The newer DFPs are much much quieter than the old ones, so I imagine the noise will be a lot less noticeable IF it remains. Too bad I just got my DFP about a month ago :( Ah well... the new Logi wheel will still be there when this one hits the pit.

MAGGOT

[dave_w11]

I think I'll probably get one then despite not really being able to afford one! I'd love to be able to play later on without waking up the whole street!

I got an act labs shifter thing but found I barely use it with having to have another wheel lying around somewhere to have a clutch pedal and all the messing about plugging it in. Aswell as needing space for 2 sets of pedals and them sliding away from each other while racing etc. This looks like the perfect all in one solution and should get me racing again :D

[sgt.flippy]

The newer DFPs are much much quieter than the old ones, so I imagine the noise will be a lot less noticeable IF it remains. Too bad I just got my DFP about a month ago :( Ah well... the new Logi wheel will still be there when this one hits the pit.

MAGGOT
[/size]
I got a revision B DFP, and if the older ones made more noise than this one, I'm VERY happy I have this one, because it still makes a lotta noise!

And I think I'll buy that wheel once the prices drop, and it's still available.

I wonder how people can say it looks bad, brushed metal, realistic buttons (too little, but they look realistic), and REAL leather covering... It should look like the wheel in your car, just a little smaller! :pillepall

Although I would like to have it with the leather, and for the rest look like the DFP tho, and even a little bigger.

[Falkowski83]

Damn. This beauty will be sold here probably with a U$600-700 tag on it. But damn... I hate when this kind of things happen. Because I know I'll be buying it (well... my DFP costed me U$300... Sooo....)

[Cargo]

I'm just a casual racer. Okay, very infrequent casual racing. (although I still have my CD of NFS(1) back when I raced with a CH CombatStick)
This wheel package doesn't interest me at all. The Shifter/Button assy is completely bonkers. There is no way I want to go back to shifting by stick, paddles forever. The wheel itself looks nice, but there is no way I would go without more buttons on the wheel.
The best part of this package is the pedals, not doubt about that, they look awesome. But the other 2/3's is fubar'd.

With LFS, all my MomoBlack buttons serve a very usefull purpose. Clutch, 3 Looks, pit spd, headlights, (hmm and something else I'm forgetting at the moment). In GTR it was even better, 2 buttons just for F/R brake balance. (LFS >> GTR)

Anyway, just posting for the fun of it. I was ROFL seeing all the 'other' G25 topics. :D
The wheel market has been very very dry for quite some time now.

[J.B.]

So has anybody had any ideas as to why exactly two motors are better than one?

The only thing I can think of is that if each motor provides torque in only one direction, then the transition between clockwise/anti-clockwise torque should be smoother. Or maybe they are using some kind of advanced control system which could for example make one motor "help" you overcome the gearing resistance in the other motor when you turn the wheel very fast. Anyone in the know?

The gear shifter has a sequential option, presumably to make it work in just one plane.

Where did you get this from? I think you may have been misreading something about the paddle shifters. I would definately miss the sequential shifter of the DFP on this wheel, especially since most "real" racing cars (as in single-seaters) have either sequential stick or paddle shifters in real life. I'd rather have sequential than H-pattern tbh. Or no, let's have a mechanism that can be adjusted to work as either.

Same with the pedals: they either need to be adjustable to enable use for either left foot or right foot braking or I would prefer a clutchless left foot braking set. And looking at the gap between the throttle and brake it would seem the G25 pedals are better for left foot braking, leaving no foot left for the clutch. :confused:

Also, when reading the article I was hoping for the magic words "pressure sensitive brake pedal". :x

So all in all I'm not sure if it has the features that I would be looking for to replace my DFP but I guess I'll need a test drive first. Maybe the mechanics are so good that I won't care about the things I've just mentioned. The price seems to be OK considering the amount of features you get.

[NotAnIllusion]

The shifter has separate selectable 6-speed 'H' and sequential modes that you can switch between at will (from the first post in this thread):

For PC and PlayStation 2 games that don't support the six-speed shifting mode, racers can switch the gearbox into sequential shifting mode

[J.B.]

The shifter has separate selectable 6-speed 'H' and sequential modes that you can switch between at will (from the first post in this thread):

I understand that as saying that you can switch the in-game "gearbox" to sequential and and then use the paddles to shift. I think it's not quite clear. Are they talking about adjusting the game to the shifter or the shifter to the game?

[Shotglass]

I understand that as saying that you can switch the in-game "gearbox" to sequential and and then use the paddles to shift. I think it's not quite clear. Are they talking about adjusting the game to the shifter or the shifter to the game?

look at the knob on the shifter and the symbols on it

[J.B.]

look at the knob on the shifter and the symbols on it

Oh. How could I miss that? I think I just saw a rotating knob and assumed it was for adjusting brake balance. :hide:

Well that's a big plus from my point of view. I guess I will have to start saving.

[szyszek]

I'm just wondering about the availability of the wheel. I would like to wait a while for the prices to drop a bit, and then get it... but it's supposed to be a limited edition. What does that mean? I mean will they make 10 of them, or a 1 000 000? Shame there isn't really any info on that.

[TagForce]

I'm just wondering about the availability of the wheel. I would like to wait a while for the prices to drop a bit, and then get it... but it's supposed to be a limited edition. What does that mean? I mean will they make 10 of them, or a 1 000 000? Shame there isn't really any info on that.

They will make only one revision of this wheel, in a single batch...
Which basically means: They'll make enough of them to supply the world with the wheels for an initial launch of a new product, but once they're gone, they're gone. I don't know how many DFPs were sold the first quarter it was released, but I'm guessing this one will have twice that many units made.

You'll be able to get them just fine. Only problem will be: If you want to buy one 3 years from now, they'll be gone... And if it breaks down, you won't automatically get a replacement unit. First they'll try to repair it (since they only have so many units), and if that really fails, you'll get a replacement if available.

[Execution Style]

That's what you use those two buttons for :D
What else would you want to use them for? I can't really think of a button I'd use that really needs to be on the wheel...

-look left
-look over left shoulder
-look right
-look over right shoulder (in LFS, big diff esp in open wheelers)
-pit speed limiter
-handbrake (rally fan :D)
-horn

and in the not critical but nice category:
-TC toggle
-flash headlights

I guess I can do without a horn button and a pit speed limiter, but the handbrake is something I don't want to be hunting a button for :(. Used correctly, you can save a little side-trip on the grass and 5 seconds out of your race. And the horn can save some accidents in multi-player.


I'm kind of in disbelief about the number of buttons on the wheel.


But can't wait to have a clutch pedal!

[dave_w11]

-look left
-look over left shoulder
-look right
-look over right shoulder (in LFS, big diff esp in open wheelers)
-pit speed limiter
-handbrake (rally fan :D)
-horn

and in the not critical but nice category:
-TC toggle
-flash headlights

I guess I can do without a horn button and a pit speed limiter, but the handbrake is something I don't want to be hunting a button for :(. Used correctly, you can save a little side-trip on the grass and 5 seconds out of your race. And the horn can save some accidents in multi-player.


I'm kind of in disbelief about the number of buttons on the wheel.


But can't wait to have a clutch pedal!


I guess you could use one of the gear shift paddles for handbrake if you're using the shifter for gears :shrug: Or shift with the paddles and use the shifter in sequential mode for handbrake?


For looking left and right you only need 2 in LFS because if you hold them both it looks behind over the shoulder of the button you pressed first.


For me 2 buttons on the wheel is fine. I think I prefer how it is with buttons out of the way on the shifter. Pitty there aren't buttons on both though so you could choose.

[StanleyCarter]

the g25 wheel feels just fine for me.

I'll use the 2 buttons on the wheel for left/right look, the paddles for E-brake and also horn.

the rest of the function such as headlights, pit limiter, car resetting (which I have all assigned on my current momo racing wheel buttons) aren't really important and I think they'll work just fine on the buttons on that shifter console.

Damn I've already planned how I should assign my LFS buttons... lol! :D

[XRRoy]

around that time (oct/nov/dec) my 3rd set of the MOMO Racing pedals will be dead again. So i can buy myselfs a nice christmas present:thumb:


The wheel looks very solid on the pics. Looking forward to have it in my own hands:)

[Ear Collector]

Very good idea ]:-> oh well, bye bye sis! you're going on nice trip to emirates :bananalla

:D:D:D

[Ear Collector]

I understand that as saying that you can switch the in-game "gearbox" to sequential and and then use the paddles to shift. I think it's not quite clear. Are they talking about adjusting the game to the shifter or the shifter to the game?

You can use the H shifter in gated or sequential mode. When you switch it, the stick moves up and down only in sequential shifting mode.

Hope that clears it up for ya.

EC

[Shotglass]

from simhq:
Using stainless steel elements, tight tolerances, potentiometers screwed directly into the pedal base frame (thereby keeping all loads off the pots) and ensuring that the pedal motion is stopped by the metal frame before the pot is fully rotated, Logitech engineers have ensured that the pedals will be durable, accurate and not exhibit any of the calibration issues of its predecessor.
http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_020g.html

[Gabkicks]

i want them oh so bad... i wish i never heard about them... i had a dream about the g25 last night:schwitz:

[Bob Smith]

Just got a red momo to play with, feels so much nicer in FFB, much like DFP does, however it lacks a shifter, while the DFP has the shifter stuck on the wrong side, silly Sony buttons and pedals are still weak. So my black momo is staying for now, even with it's gritty, notchy FFB, silly motor resistance and creaky plastic case.

Please let this G25 be the best of all 3 wheels so I can stop moaning. Oh it can't come soon enough.

[Gabkicks]

the shifter isnt on the wrong side for me :tilt:

[Boris Lozac]

The wheel is absolutely amazing, and the price is not too high for what it's offering.. What i would like to know is, whether the clutch pedal will work like the real clutch pedal, like to be able to stall the car if you release the clutch too sudden? I don't know if LFS even simulates that? or any other sim.. It would be an amazing feature. You could really practice your basic driving skills with this wheel. Would be great for people learning for driving licence...

[DEVIL 007]

Hi,

The wheel look really promosing but only with 299dollars tag.
This always really suck but everything what is introduced in dollars like this tag for wheel 299dollars will cost 299euros in europe and then the price doesnt look really attractive for what it offer as for such a Euro price it has many flaws:-( (just 2 buttons on the wheel is funny).

I dont need button around shifter as during racing I have to foccus and driving then searching the other buttons somewhere else.

[sgt.flippy]

Why do you guys keep moaning about the buttons? And having to search for them. When you assigned all of the buttons to your wheel, you had to memorize them too. Now you just have to memorize the buttons again in an other position. When I'm turning, I'm not pressing any button on my wheel... So I don't need my two hands on the wheel, so when I need to press a button, I can easily put my hand on the shifter, and I know what button I need to press, blindely. It'll just need some practice, getting used to.

[bo-kristiansen]

Why do you guys keep moaning about the buttons? And having to search for them. When you assigned all of the buttons to your wheel, you had to memorize them too. Now you just have to memorize the buttons again in an other position. When I'm turning, I'm not pressing any button on my wheel... So I don't need my two hands on the wheel, so when I need to press a button, I can easily put my hand on the shifter, and I know what button I need to press, blindely. It'll just need some practice, getting used to.


...I just label my buttons untill I memorized what they do,
and after some time I dont need to look on the wheel when using buttons. :shrug:


...and the G25's missing buttons is the ONLY reason why I might not buy it...

[Rtsbasic]

The lack of buttons on the wheel doesn't bother me. How many buttons do you have on your real cars wheel? (hmm bad example, my C4 has as many as my DFP). Its got buttons to look around, and you have buttons near the shifter to check tyres, map to messages etc, more than enough in total in my opinion.

[Vain]

I like the design of the wheel. It looks good and still has all needed buttons. Namely look left/right. I never use other buttons during corners, so those are the only buttons I need while I have my hands on the wheel.
The pedals look fine. Hopefully the shifter will also be good.

Vain

[DEVIL 007]

The lack of buttons on the wheel doesn't bother me. How many buttons do you have on your real cars wheel? (hmm bad example, my C4 has as many as my DFP). Its got buttons to look around, and you have buttons near the shifter to check tyres, map to messages etc, more than enough in total in my opinion.
On racing cars like GTR class we have you can usually check it on the dashboard in real life so in LFS you need a buttons on your wheel.

I check for example the temps to decide whenever I can use more or agressive style of driving.I also check the fuel which left in my tnak during longer races for pit stop strategy.

[Matrixi]

One thing i disliked however was the 6 speed/sequential shifter. Its a great addition thats its a 2 in 1 combo, but the shifter is "weightless" and does not return back to position. Everything else was of high quality, the shifter however didnt feel up to par.This is a huge dissapointment for me. If I understood correctly, the shifter is just a stick with no returning force to neutral between 3rd and 4th? Wth has Logitech been thinking? Bah, I guess I will have to keep my "CLICKETY-CLONK" Act-Labs shifter after all.

[Shotglass]

from what ive read at simhq the shifter has a spring but its too weak

[deggis]

Looks fantastic. It has kind of retro style look with the buttons. I was kind of hoping that Logitech would take the harder way with their next wheel but I was just thinking about something like red MOMO just with 900 degrees added. But this was a surprise... I'm actually hoping that my black MOMO would break apart that I could get an excuse to buy that. It just looks like an offer you can't refuse. :D

And I think this could mean to sim games much more than just a new wheel. Why try to make completely realistic clutch & gearbox emulations to games if most of the sim gamers don't have shifters or clutch pedals. I hope this improves this situation.

though too bad if the shifter is not that good and lack of buttons is a really big issue. On the other hand you have the shifter which could be mapped to different things and the paddles if you're using the shifter itself.

That "limited edition" could be just a marketing gimmick.

I wonder how the shifter thing is attached to the table? Anyone seen pics about the bottom?

[Tweaker]

Mmm well, the limited edition probably is true... because the Red MOMO was kind of 'limited' in numbers if you think about it too. The materials and price they have to pay for such a product is not always something they'd want to continuously write checks for. ALSO, not to mention that the simulation market is not as high as with gamepads or such... so chances are, it is a way to get more people interested in buying one, but also probably so they do not produce more than they should sell. Maybe I'm wrong :shrug:

Anyways, as for the shifter being reported as too light. Well I don't think I'd mind that. As long as it stays in each gear gate, I'd be ok with it. If it doesn't bounce back to the center like the Act Labs one, that might be an issue, but most real sticks in cars don't exactly bounce back like the Act Labs one. There still is a bit of play or looseness at its center point. It is just the direction you know where each gate is, and that is all you need to know. I have a feeling that it will be much easier to shift than the Act Labs one... I never liked the Act Labs one because it had too long of gates, and not a fast 'sporty' shifter. It was focused a lot on the old GPL style where throws were much larger back in those days. And the gate was designed with a box shape and deep gates, so the 1st through 2nd gear and the 5th and 6th gear had much longer throws to their gates... whereas nowadays, shifting in a car feels an even distance to each gear... or at least the gates are not as long or deep. I like that.

I just hope the G25 shifter is like this.

[Goldfingiz]

This wheel is going to be great!:thumb:

[Shotglass]

As long as it stays in each gear gate, I'd be ok with it.

well lets just hope they get it fixed for the final version:

On the pre-production example, it was noted that there was almost no retention force to keep the gated shifter in-gear. This made the shifter feel very vague as to whether it was actually in gear. It was also extremely easy to knock out of gear with the slightest pressure, and at times the shifter would just flop out of detent and return to Neutral. In a shifter, floppy is not a desired feeling.
http://www.simhq.com/_all/all_019l.html

[Matrixi]

I'm very scared of that shifter. I really really really hope that they will do something about it before the wheel hits mass production. Even tho the Act-Labs has longer throws than a Volvo Amazon, or more fake feeling than P.Andersons breasts, I think it's better than a floppy short-throw shifter. :shrug:

[letdown427]

"Only pre-production variants were available for a test drive at the show, which were also being used for durability and quality testing. Heavy use at E3 helped to quickly identify some design issues that have already been identified by Logitech, and alterations are in work"

Also from that simhq article. Hopefully there were also enough people going "Where're the buttons? I want an LCD screen" to make Logitech listen aswell! :)

That simhq article makes reassuring reading...

"On the pre-production examples on display, there were only two buttons on the wheel itself, which Chunx felt was a bit lacking. Ruben explained that the goal is to replicate less sophisticated racing vehicles, but it seemed that there wasn't a full evaluation of "function over form" and acknowledgment that a sim racing wheel must accommodate for "sim-isms" such as the need for view buttons (assuming many folks don't own a NaturalPoint TrackIR unit), pause and reset buttons, etc. Hopefully, the wheel will sprout a couple more buttons before it's final form is set."

[HugeF1]

This wheel looks pretty cool, I love my current MOMO (so many happy memories :)), but I bet it won't last much longer, with the number of laps I put through it.
The pedals look stunning, and I guess they have learnt from their mistakes with the MOMO.
As for the buttons issue, I guess I could learn to live with it, but it would be annoying. I will wait until Jan next year and read all the feedback about the handling and feel (and any problems), then I will make up my mind

[Transporter]

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6255/g3517wl.jpg


Six-speed gated shifter and clutch pedal; two high-torque force-feedback motors; an 11-inch wheel; and a full 900 degrees of rotation. The wheel, shifter and pedals are made with premium materials such as stainless steel and leather, delivering the look and feel of parts from a race car cockpit.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7496/logitechg253au.jpg

The Logitech G25 Racing Wheel is the company´s first to include a six-speed gated shifter, complete with a push-down reverse gear, offering a new level of control. Now racers can quickly shift into any gear as they decelerate going into turns and accelerate out of them — rather than cycling through gears sequentially or hoping an automatic transmission selects the most appropriate gear. Advanced driving techniques such as heel-and-toe downshifting are made possible with the included clutch pedal.

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/6444/g25shifter6kz.jpg

The Logitech G25 Racing Wheel is compatible with current racing titles, such as rFactor™ and Live for Speed, as well as several other PC racing titles currently in development. The wheel can also be used with any PlayStation®2 game that is compatible with other Logitech force-feedback wheels, including the Logitech® Driving Force™ and Logitech® Driving Force™ Pro.

Release in Europe and U.S early october 2006.

This is the perfect wheel, and i want it now.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2378/115181ex.jpg

[Transporter]

somehow the [img] code didnt work, but look at the url's.

[Vain]

1. That's old news.
2. Wrong forum. There's a wheel-section in the hardware-forum.
3. There's an edit button on your posts.

Vain

[Transporter]

fine. if everyone have seen it, i'll edit it away. And sorry for the wrong forum.

[Vendetta]

whoa, i knew logitech was coming out with a new wheel, but i didnt know it came with a 6 speed shifter! looks pretty nice, but my dfp is fine ;) :D

[Phill]

^yeah, im a DFP driver aswell, fine for me for a LONG time.

[XCNuse]

holy crap.. theres where all the buttons are.. dannnng thats a nice wheel..

[Transporter]

someone move this to the hardware forum? Thanks

[Krane]

Pictures found from http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=253880 posted by a Logitech rep (a tech type, not marketing :thumb:)

Really urge to skim through the thread, lotsa technical info :)

[Matrixi]

Oh mama... *drool* :jawdrop:

That looks so much better than DFP pedal design.

[ruckus37]

Not for F1 racing you would get confused with the middle pedal!

[Eleanor SpeedGT]

You cant drive F1 with this wheel then...it has 6 speed shifter and F1 has 7 gears..lol

[Matrixi]

Not for F1 racing you would get confused with the middle pedal!No. I have a clutch pedal and I don't get confused with the brake pedal when racing GTR:s or formulas. When driving on semi-auto just keep your left foot on brake and right foot on gas all the time. Simple as that. :)

[Vendetta]

You cant drive F1 with this wheel then...it has 6 speed shifter and F1 has 7 gears..lol


F1 cars dont use an H shifter, but they use the paddels. So when you drive the F1 car, you would use the shifting paddels to shift. This is one reason why this (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3799&highlight=controls) idea should be implented ;)

[spankmeyer]

I bet 96,3% of people registered here do not even know we have offtopic and hardware sections. But still...

OLD NEWS!

Peace! :)

[scudly]

Also if you want some more info on the wheel I highly suggest you check out this (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1872157) thread on SomethingAwful. I asked one of the main dev's of the wheel some questions and he replies to a lot of other people's ones.

Basically the wheel looks like it could be the real deal in a truely awesome wheel that can replace people's old failing ACT Labs ones. Plus he mentions that they may release a whitesheet for the wheel so that other companies can make addon's for the wheel which would be amazing

[Gabkicks]

How strong is the force feedback compared to the dfp? ie.... how much faster can the wheel spin on its own?

can it spin this quickly? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6784478283660931309&q=ueo

[Tweaker]

My god, that guy is crazy Gabkicks :)

Scudly, can you do me a favor, and have him take pictures of the clamps if possible. That is the only part I am worried about with the G25. I know he described them with comparisons to the DFP's clamps and stuff.... but I really have no clue what those look like. I just need to see what the shifter and the wheel base's clamps look like. Possibly even some measurements?

Because my table is known for not allowing certain wheel clamp system to have enough room :(

[Shotglass]

can it spin this quickly? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6784478283660931309&q=ueo


he said somwhere that the wheel cans spin a lot faster than the dfp
but i doubt it will be that fast
btw concerning those spinning wheels while driftin ... how much of that spin is the push the driver gives the wheel and how much of it is the forces through the steering column ? seems to me like lfs turns the wheel a bit too slow in these cases

[DownShift]

GOD DAMNIT!!! i want that wheel!!! im a DFP driver and on the real yall.... that thing pwns the DFP ANY DAY!!@%!$*@$*!@%!!!! one!!!!!!one!!!!!!1111ONE1111!!!!! :D

[Arkanen]

Here is very interesting discussion (first post on the bottom of the page).

http://www.wingmanteam.com/discus/messages/4/3848.html?1148457788

PS. I see Gabkicks on third forum, RSCNET, GTPlanet and this one ;)

[Gabkicks]

yeah i'm deffinatly buying it :) i cant wait for it to come out. i own 2 dfps :)

[JJ72]

I've had feedbacks from people who tried the shifter - that it feels quite plastic like and flimsy, same goes to the pedals which doesn't seem to benefit from an upgrade of materials from what they have always used on the DFP/MOMO.

Actually maybe a Flex kit seems to be a better idea at such price if you already have a decent wheel.

[Chris_Kerry]

A Frex kit needs a DFP, which I don't have. SO it's a toss up between getting a DFP or waiting for this. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Matrixi]

Damn, I was afraid that the shifter will be a plastic toy. :( I so hope they will make it more solid by the time the wheel hits mass production. Of course I'll still be buying it tho, the pedals CAN'T be worse than what DFP pedals are.

[JJ72]

Damn, I was afraid that the shifter will be a plastic toy. :( I so hope they will make it more solid by the time the wheel hits mass production. Of course I'll still be buying it tho, the pedals CAN'T be worse than what DFP pedals are.

but not better,same pots they are using. :shrug:

[Rtsbasic]

The pots aren't the problem, its that in the DFP/momo they're not secured enough.

I hope the pedals/shifter have a solid feeling..but tbh mostly I hope they get the wheel perfect, given the choice I will be buying just the wheel anyway, already have Actlabs shifter/pedals :) The wheel looks very nice..shiny..

[dontsimon]

Pots are the same as Rev B by the looks, but the construction does appear to be better. The pots are not directly attached to the pedal shaft as per DFP/momo (see pic) so strain is taken off the pots, removing any lateral movement (which caused those infamous problems).

Also, the pedal travel finishes at a point where steel meets steel, so under / over calibration should be all but gone.

This is only info I've read from various forums btw, I have no first hand personal knowledge of the unit.

[Jakg]

yeah i'm deffinatly buying it :) i cant wait for it to come out. i own 2 dfps :)care to share? :D

[Forbin]

The problem I see with having gears like that in the pedals is they introduce a lot of play into the pedals. The original Act-Labs 2-pedal set used gears with similarly coarse teeth and it was pretty awful. The only way to get around it is to use finer teeth.

[Rtsbasic]

Thing is if they tighten up the mesh they'll feel like they're binding, so realistically why are they using gears in the pedals? Those teeth look like module 1 pitch, so there will be quite a bit of play in them.

[mcman]

The Pedals use gears to increase the rotation angle of the potentiometers which provides a larger output range for greater accuracy. These gears are spring loaded which eliminates all backlash and with "steel to steel" stops calibration is very consistent. The potentiometers are not the same as DFP due to the much higher rotation angle provided by the gears. The operation is very smooth and rigid due to all steel construction and steel shoulder bolt mounted pedal arms riding on precision bushings. The springs have higher rates than DFP or MOMO Racing providing better feedback to the user while further adding to the smoothness during operation.

[Matrixi]

Thanks for the info there mcman. The pedals are least of my concern tho, I hope Logitech will also put lots of efforth in the shifter, as they have done with the wheel and the pedals. There is yet no shifters in the sim-market that provide realistic (in the limits of cost) feeling and short throws between gears.

Perhaps Logitech could make a really hardcore (well made & expensive) shifter that could be bought as kind of an upgrade for the G25.. :scratchch

[Rtsbasic]

Or they could do the sensible thing and get it right 1st time for a change?

mcman, thanks for the insight. Don't like the sound of bushing though, hopefully they will be a standard enough size to fit some bearings in there.

[spsamsp]

whoa, i knew logitech was coming out with a new wheel, but i didnt know it came with a 6 speed shifter! looks pretty nice, but my dfp is fine ;) :D

Been looking for a wheel with one of them for ages!!! I love it! :D

[Matrixi]

Or they could do the sensible thing and get it right 1st time for a change?
I honestly doubt that a great wheel + great pedals + great shifter could be fit in to 300usd/euro package. With a hardcore shifter I mean making it feel just like the real thing. Except the stick shaking because of engine movement of course, that would be helluva cool tho. :D

[P5YcHoM4N]

I honestly doubt that a great wheel + great pedals + great shifter could be fit in to 300usd/euro package. With a hardcore shifter I mean making it feel just like the real thing. Except the stick shaking because of engine movement of course, that would be helluva cool tho. :D
Easy enough to create that though. 1nsane has wheel shake when you idle, and if you rev in neutral it gets worse depending on RPM (it also does it as you drive, but gets a tad over zelous at times), to create the engine shake (I hope LFS gets that some day). All they'd have to do is put motors in the shifter and hook it upto force feedback (not powerful motors that it damages it, or knocks you out of gear all the time, just enough for realism), that makes it vibrate :D

[dontsimon]

The Pedals use gears to increase the rotation angle of the potentiometers which provides a larger output range for greater accuracy.

To be honest, I don't think the gearing increases the range of the pots in this instance. My brother's BRD Pro pedals usea gearing, but the difference in size of the cogs increases the pots range. On the G25 pedals, the two cog gears appear to be the same size / turning radius which, if true, means turning range of the pot will be no greater unfortunately.

As it is though, the current DFP pots seem to have a decent resolution even with their reduced range, so as long as they match those they should be okay. The gearing mechanasim appears to be there to solve calibration / stability / accuracy problems.

[Dygear]

I'd get this, I just HATE my momo.
*grumbles* damn center issue, damn force feedback to stop me from hitting the lock *grumbles*.

[mcman]

To be honest, I don't think the gearing increases the range of the pots in this instance. My brother's BRD Pro pedals usea gearing, but the difference in size of the cogs increases the pots range. On the G25 pedals, the two cog gears appear to be the same size / turning radius which, if true, means turning range of the pot will be no greater unfortunately.

As it is though, the current DFP pots seem to have a decent resolution even with their reduced range, so as long as they match those they should be okay. The gearing mechanasim appears to be there to solve calibration / stability / accuracy problems.

The ratio on these pedals is 1:2.75 increasing the pedal range from 20 degrees to a potentiometer range of 55 degrees. DFP/MOMO Force is 1:1.

[dontsimon]

That's good news then :)

Do you have access to a set already? Where do you get your info?

[BlueSkunk]

any news on this??

[deggis]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000GP8448/ref=dp_otherviews_1/103-3618686-5647849?redirect=true&ie=UTF8&s=electronics&img=1

new pics.

more: http://www.diediedie.com/g25 (partly same pics)

[Gabkicks]

yeah i saw those pics a few days ago. its so painful to look at that wheel because i want it so badly... those teasing bastards:weeping:

[DTrott]

I saw this yesterday and I looks damn sexy. I worked out that it doesn't cost that much; about 160 GBP.

[Robster230]

Just wondering, how is the 6 shifter going to work with LFS? as that only has controls for Change UP and Change down?

lot of people will want to drop lots of gears in one go, after spins, or aggressive down-changing etc...

[spyshagg]

there are options for that in LFS... change shifter type from sequential to "shifter"

a new menu appears

[DEVIL 007]

hope this will put more buttons on the wheel.I dont need them on shifter.I need them on wheel to be able to focus properly.
Somebody forgot to realize its for simmers who need more buttons.2 are not enought on the wheel.

[Daveebee]

Hi All, Has anyone heard who is going to stock the new wheel (G25) from Logitech in the U.K. yet, and a possible price?. I'd imagine there won't be too many stockist's because of the likely price, $299 is being mentioned and about$250 via Amazon in the U.S. Although the present £/$ exchange rate might make the U.K. price reasonable.

[spankmeyer]

For Finns: http://www.bdog.fi/cgi-bin/netstore/tuote.pl?tuote=1637804801591

Oh hells yea!

EDIT: Bit the bullet and ordered one... Now I'm broke. :( :) :( :)

[tomylee]

I looking for a wheel, so if somebody like's to make a gift to me.......that would be a nice thing :smileypul :D

[paddy_racer]

I'd Hope ,the pedals are better than the momo!:thumb:

[Tweaker]

I'd Hope ,the pedals are better than the momo!:thumb:

They are the best Logitech has made to date ;) :tilt:

[TagForce]

They are the best Logitech has made to date ;) :tilt:

Yes, but if you are really honest, that's not something to be overly exited about is it? I mean... Logitech's rep regarding pedals is even worse than the West Bros rep regarding releasing sims. Looking at it I just hope I can fit a pair of replacement pads on them to make heel-toe easier.

[spankmeyer]

Agreed that Logi pedals have been miserable, but I remember Logi has been cool and listened to customers and even offered replacements for free.

As G25 is quite a special product market/pricewise, I'm silently hoping they'll remain cool about inevitable malfunctions and monday-versions surfacing. it would only make sense to build them better to save costs in the long run by avoiding replacements.

(And I don't want to feel like sucker for shelling out 299 euros before even touching the final product...)

[TagForce]

Yes, and they show my problem with them... For proper heel-toe the brake pedal should be a bit higher than the throttle pedal. So for me the best solutions would either be to place the throttle a bit further back, or put padding on the brake pedal to make it stand out more.

[dontsimon]

Those are the pedals out of the casing. Goo (or someone form, Logi) said they can be taken out and fixed upside down, or any way you wish. If you have the know how, and don't mind voiding your warranty that is, you can set them up as you want.

You're right though, out of the box the throttle should be set further back slightly.

[Shotglass]

Goo posted couple videos and a new pic to the RSC thread.

n.b. Media Player Classic didn't seem to know what to do with the videos, use VLC or something instead.

link ?

much faster than a dfp which is nice but its not quite what id like to see (think frex prototype)

[spankmeyer]

(think frex prototype)

Think 1000+ euro pricetag. :x

[Shotglass]

300$ wheel with lots of flaws (staring with the manufacturer) vs 1000$ wheel which appears to be the first one truely fit for 720 drifting
looks like a more or less fair price for what you get (sure its overpriced but so is the g25)

[Tweaker]

What kind of flaws. Honestly now, I can only name a few very MINOR things that the G25 has a disadvantage width, but they've all been mentioned before... so what "flaws" do you really think makes $300 not worth the money? mmm?

Wheel is superb for the money. And it only costs $300 because it includes the accessories. If the wheel were sold seperately, I am pretty sure it would be the around the average cost of a good Logitech wheel. Adding the clutch is of course a little more, but overall it IS technically the next red MOMO wheel in terms of quality. Adding the shifter on there is probably what boosts the price to its final amount, lots of buttons, shifters aren't cheap, etc etc.... So for what you get, of course it is worth it. I'd never spend $1,000+ on a similar package unless it used the finest materials known to man... and made by the best.

[Shotglass]

a) very few buttons - not what youd expect at that price range
b) somewhat small wheel
c) according to some reports a flimsy shifter
d) very large cogs => inaccurate pedals
e) gas pedal isnt placed behind the brake pedal

overall id say its not exactly the best way for logitech to redeem themself

depending on what drifters have to say about it ill probably still buy it but i think it could be a lot better without really adding cost

[Jakg]

I want one, but I don't need a shifter or pedals (have 2 sets pedals and a joystick), and the wheel needs more buttons

:(

am I the only person who thought the shifter would be bigger?

[Racin Jason]

Definately getting the G25! Hope they make the seperate shifter thing out of a heavy material so it doesnt slide all over my desk when I shift, same with the pedals, I find myself bracing my left foot on the pedal console so it doesn't move when i press down the throttle/brake, and with clutch I wont be able to do that. But I'm sure they will!

[Tweaker]

a) very few buttons - not what youd expect at that price range
b) somewhat small wheel
c) according to some reports a flimsy shifter
d) very large cogs => inaccurate pedals
e) gas pedal isnt placed behind the brake pedal

overall id say its not exactly the best way for logitech to redeem themself

depending on what drifters have to say about it ill probably still buy it but i think it could be a lot better without really adding cost

Buttons on the wheel is only drawback, but shouldn't deter buyers, it's not like you aren't able to drive without a few more buttons.

Wheel is NOT small. Red MOMO is small, and this is a bit bigger and proper size for any car in a game really. If it was too big it would suck for drifting, and would be terrible for a Formula car. If it was too small, it would suck for the sensitive cars. To be honest, it is the right size, and perfect for a full rotation wheel. The wheel is a 270mm wheel, equal to this Sparco one (http://www.frex.com/gp/steering/sparcoLNw200.JPG), and pretty much most other racing wheels.

Shifter is flimsy only because the earlier versions they made were not even the production versions which have been improved supposedly.

Inaccurate pedals??? These are the most precise ones I've ever felt from Logitech. Smooth, responsive, and a great range.

If someone is REALLY REALLY wanting more buttons, proper throttle pedal placement, etc... Then spend loads more cash on something else if you are that serious. It isn't going to make you any faster if you spend more. And $300 is not an extraordinary amount that you would feel bad about spending for this wheel.... This wheel is Logitech's next best wheel to date. Will be sold quickly because of its limited supply, that's for sure. Hell if I bought FREX, BRD, and all those other expensive brands, will it make me faster??? No, I will just know I spent lots and lots of money on "cool" rather than it being beneficial to my racing. A cheap Logitech wheel could even get you world records.... the G25 is a step-up from Logitech's usual plastic models, and very much improved. You are paying for better quality of materials and parts at least. Anything of even higher quality will cost you an arm and a leg, it's just not practical.

[spankmeyer]

a) very few buttons - not what youd expect at that price range
b) somewhat small wheel
c) according to some reports a flimsy shifter
d) very large cogs => inaccurate pedals
e) gas pedal isnt placed behind the brake pedal

overall id say its not exactly the best way for logitech to redeem themself

depending on what drifters have to say about it ill probably still buy it but i think it could be a lot better without really adding cost

A) Take it as a creative challenge.
B) That's your negative, my positive.
C) It can't be any flimsier than DFPs shilly shtick and mine still working flawlessy after two years.
D) Negative. The cogs are sprung so they are constantly engaged = zero slack.
E) I had no problems heel-toeing with DFP pedals + MS pedal set as a clutch, so I'm quite sure G25's pedal layout won't give me headaches.

[JJ72]

I think the G25 is dirt cheap for what it offered.

[Hyperactive]

Somehow this "new wheel from logitech" leaves me cold. Maybe it is just that I have heard so much horror stories about logitech wheels that I have somewhat lost my trust on the firm. Especially because my MS wheel has been through all kind of bizarre accidents (dropped to ground from heights of 2 metres, not once) and only one problem that I have ever had with it are the random (once or twice a day) double up/downshift, or the squeeky pedals. It is just a shame that Microsoft isn't making wheels anymore. At least their stuff had the reliability issues taken care of, business sense or not.

I would have really hoped that the wheel would have had at least 4 buttons (look left/right, pit speedlimiter and handbrake). Now it has only two, which are even poorly positioned on the wheel. Also while the pedals look sturdy and more reliable than the previous MOMO-red/DFP versions, logitech has still forgotten that in hi-spec-tech wheels/pedals, the pedal precision is largely underestimated. If you look at the pedal travel, the angle precisely, you see that it is less than 50 degrees. Also no talks about if the wheel has bearings on its axle. And that gear stick isn't practical. Especially that directional pad (cross-button or whatevah) is totally useless - you need to use your forefinger to operate it, like the rest of the buttons on the shifter. And because of the need of using you forefinger, you need to reach out for them. And this means that operating them is slow and inprecise.

Imho, this is again a classic example how the idea of "everything needs to be symmetric, for the looks" has been a higher priority than raw ergonomics. After all, the logitech RSC speachman, goo, said that it was important for logitech that the wheel would not look like a toy. Do pro sim racers care how the wheel looks, if the functionality is top notch? Or vice versa :pillepall

All-in-all, it's still promising that logitech has made such a product aimed at more professional sim players. Too bad it wasn't designed by ones.

Sorry for being such negative, but bad design always makes me sad. :shrug:

EDIT: it seems that someone had posted a screen edit of the wheel with an lcd display on it. Imho, having an lcd display on wheel isn't really practical as the wheel is a) not in your sight = you need to move your eyes away from the screen b) as the wheel turns it makes it even ahrder to see what it says. A fixed lcd placed on top of the wheel would be better imho. And cheaper.

[WIGGA]

i was yesterday on the Games Convetion in Leipzig! And there I drive with the G25! And ist OMG! The best wheel i ever seen!

I upload a Movie how i drive with the G25 in the next Post!

PS: I must buy it!

[Shotglass]

Wheel is NOT small. Red MOMO is small, and this is a bit bigger and proper size for any car in a game really. If it was too big it would suck for drifting, and would be terrible for a Formula car. If it was too small, it would suck for the sensitive cars. To be honest, it is the right size, and perfect for a full rotation wheel. The wheel is a 270mm wheel, equal to this Sparco one (http://www.frex.com/gp/steering/sparcoLNw200.JPG), and pretty much most other racing wheels.

i could always do with a larger wheel ... especially for drifting which would make it more like irl

Shifter is flimsy only because the earlier versions they made were not even the production versions which have been improved supposedly.

well supposedly ... as ive said ill wait for users comments on that

C) It can't be any flimsier than DFPs shilly shtick and mine still working flawlessy after two years.

a shifter has to have a proper resisnace though to be fun to toy around with and to not get knocked out of gear easily

Inaccurate pedals??? These are the most precise ones I've ever felt from Logitech. Smooth, responsive, and a great range.

D) Negative. The cogs are sprung so they are constantly engaged = zero slack.

ok didnt know that ... forget that ive ever said that :)

E) I had no problems heel-toeing with DFP pedals + MS pedal set as a clutch, so I'm quite sure G25's pedal layout won't give me headaches.

i cant heel&toe with the dfp at all partly because the brakepedal is way too soft partly because my foot would have to be in a very awkward postion to do it

pedals set up for heel and toeing should imho have a very stiff brake (pressure sensitive would be the best but i understand 300$ wont buy you that) brake & gas pedals closely located (about the distance from the brake pedal to the clutch on the g25) and the gas pedal set back a little to about the point where the brakes bite

If someone is REALLY REALLY wanting more buttons, proper throttle pedal placement, etc... Then spend loads more cash on something else if you are that serious. It isn't going to make you any faster if you spend more.

im not in it for wrs anyway
the question is which wheel delivers the most fun and atm the frex wheel seems to be the one ticking most of the boxes (although the g25 will most probably the one to go for until one of the high quality brand wheels finally hits the market)

[Tweaker]

i cant heel&toe with the dfp at all partly because the brakepedal is way too soft partly because my foot would have to be in a very awkward postion to do it

pedals set up for heel and toeing should imho have a very stiff brake (pressure sensitive would be the best but i understand 300$ wont buy you that) brake & gas pedals closely located (about the distance from the brake pedal to the clutch on the g25) and the gas pedal set back a little to about the point where the brakes bite
Each pedal has their own stiffness. The brake pedal is the stiffest (very hard), the clutch is is a little softer, and the throttle pedal is very soft. Because the brake pedal is so stiff, it isn't hard at all to utilize heel/toe. Versus other pedal sets most are accustomed too, this is much better because of the individual stiffness.

Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/30978898/Ich_beim_Driven_mit_dem_G25._Wie_man_sieht_ist_es_ ziemlich_schwer_auch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI
Video doesn't work for me. WMP plays it with an equalizer, VLC says it is broken.... Maybe I am missing a codec, but its not working correctly at all.

[C0nscript]

Vlc gives an error but can still play it :nod:

[JJ72]

Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/30978898/Ich_beim_Driven_mit_dem_G25._Wie_man_sieht_ist_es_ ziemlich_schwer_auch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI

Nice pants! :D

Is that R-factor?

[Tweaker]

It's either GTR2 or WTCC --- errr excuse me "RACE" :rolleyes:. Brands Hatch specifically I think.

[Shotglass]

Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/30978898/Ich_beim_Driven_mit_dem_G25._Wie_man_sieht_ist_es_ ziemlich_schwer_auch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI

pg :really:

Video doesn't work for me. WMP plays it with an equalizer, VLC says it is broken.... Maybe I am missing a codec, but its not working correctly at all.

ffd says its a normal xvid and plays it just fine

[Gabkicks]

i wish i didnt watch that video... i want the g25 so bad it hurts a little :(

[J.B.]

The G25 FFB Transmission...

Wow! (the post and the specs)

[Tweaker]

Wow! (the post and the specs)
Huh? G25 doesn't have FFB shifter..... :pillepall

[Shotglass]

Huh? G25 doesn't have FFB shifter..... :pillepall

hes talking about the transmission from the ffb motors to the wheel shaft

[WIGGA]

Nice pants! :D

Is that R-factor?

THX :D
Its GTR2 with an Honda Accord

pg

hehe! i only want to see how it is to drive with an Gearbox! and ist quite HARD!
I go 5 Times to the Logitech place and drive all about 1hour with the G25 :D and the vid is the first time i drive!

Edit: My parents buy it for me at christmas (24.December) and I still cant wait. :D
Edit: Who want's to buy my 1/2 Year old Driving Force Pro and my 1 year old Wingman Formula Force GP ? :D

[Hyperactive]

The G25 FFB Transmission uses precision ball bearings: a snap ring version of the DFP "after bearing" and a smaller race version of the MOMO Force transmission (50 mm ID, 72 mm OD) as the "forward bearing" (similar layout to MOMO Force). The main shaft is glass filled Nylon 66 for very high strength with the "bull gear" integrated into the shaft for superior concentricity. Two, high torque, DC motors operate through a 16:1 reduction with a anti-backlash gear system providing direct drive to the motor mounted high resolution optical encoder. This approach means that any movement of the wheel results in movement of the optical encoder for exact input response. Further benefits of the two motor transmission are much lower interia, lower pitch line velocity of the gears for greatly reduced noise, and increased frequency response due to minimized FFB gear backlash (single reduction compared to double reduction). Number of motors, motor torque, and gear ratio were chosen to provide the same torque at the wheel rim as DFP (though it feels like more due to lower system losses).
Using more gears equals more power loss in-between. Using space materials on the shaft of the ffb wheels mean nothing when you attach it onto plastic frame (or is the frame some harder stuff too?) or if you use a plastic part to connect the wheel and the shaft:)
This design approach produces a much lighter feel and a quicker response than a standard gear based double reduction transmission. The wheel uses 3.0 mm thick stainless steel spokes providing a very rigid driving experience, and is hand wrapped with real leather. The hub mounted Paddle Shifters are constructed from 2.0 mm thick SS and operate lever arm switches in the hub (rotate with the wheel). Total rotation is 900 degrees "lock to lock" using a similar stop system as DFP, but without the mechanical 200 degree sliding stop.
The thickness of the spokes nor the materials used have 0 effect on the rigidity of the wheel. If you look for a rigid and precise ways to attach the wheel to its shaft, you don't use plastic. Plastic gets weaker as time passes by and breaks eventually. Main flexing (clap) occurs in the transmission and in the bearings. If the bearings don't wear drastically, there is no play. And then the "transmission". You can't take all the play out from a pair of cogs. If you use some kind of spring solution, you get no play in one direction but a lot play when you change direction. If the ffb motors work this way (each one turns only to one direction, and the play is removed with springs), then you probably get no play from there. But you get resistance from the springs and from the motors. Using two motors instead of one is not a smart move anyway. You just double the electronics and mechanics envolved. But if it feels better, then it may be worth its prices.
The pedals are constructed from plated CRS (cold rolled steel) and stainless steel: 2.2 mm CRS for the arms and frame, 3.0 mm SS for the pedal faces. Shoulder bolts with 8.00 mm diameters, and heavy duty plastic bushings provide a very high tolerance and rigid feel. The potentimeters are gear'ed up, using anti-backlash springs, to produce 55 degrees of potentiometer rotation from 20 degrees of input resulting in very smooth and very fine control. The stops are "metal to metal" to eliminate calibration destroying flex in the system. The pedal arms are connected to the back of the frame, once again, through 8.00 mm dia shoulder bolts, with a piston and cylinder arrangment. Springs of three different rates are enclosed inside these pistons; about twice the strength of DFP's pedal spring for the throttle, very strong for brake and firm for the clutch. These rates were finalized after many interations and many LFS laps! Each frame includes 2 tapped (M6X1 bolts) holes for mounting the pedal set to a simiulator structure, but also includes the patented "carpet lock" grip system used on DFP's pedal set.
Yes, the pedal unit seems very rigid. But I did not suspect the rigidity of the pedals in my first post. But I stand corrected, the angle of 55 degrees of potentiometer movement sounds enough. But why not use bearings on the pedals as well? Bushings are guaranteed to wear, though little play on the pedals has no sensible effect on anything :)
The Shifter is a six speed, short throw, with locked out reverse. It is convertable to a standard sequencial to support non-gated shifter games. It is constructed from heat treated CRS, and high strength Delrin engineering plastic. The mechansim is based on potentiometers, not switches, to determine shifter position. It has a spring loaded ball bearing detent that holds it in each gear, and is spring loaded to neutral when not in gear. The shaft is 10.0 mm diameter steel with a alignment flat machined into the top to key the leather shifter knob which is held on with a machine screw. The boot is also made from real leather. The Shifter uses TWO clamps made from steel bolts and glass filled nylon jaws for table attachment and retention. The knob tops have a "spring loaded, push down and rotate to set" feature to prevent them from interfering with the users knuckles while shifting. A center "ANTI-TIP" arm and screw are included to prevent tipping when the shifter is pulled toward the user. It is not a clamp, and should not be over tightened during use. Two tapped (M6X1) brackets allow the Shifter to be mounted onto a similuator frame if desired. It also contains a symetric control panel allowing the Shifter to be mounted on the left or the right side of the user.
But the "symmetric" control panel looks very bad from an ergonomics point of view. You need to use your forefinger to operated the buttons on it, yes? The shifter sounds good, but it defenately lacks ergonomics.

And considered the fact that the wheel is made by logitech, I have serious doubts about its reliability. But at the same time I hope that I'm wrong and it's a damn good wheel for its pricetag :)

[Tweaker]

And considered the fact that the wheel is made by logitech, I have serious doubts about its reliability. But at the same time I hope that I'm wrong and it's a damn good wheel for its pricetag :)
Pedals being Logitech's biggest reliability issue... the wheel itself is like any other wheel that lasts. My red MOMO wheel still lasts to this day, even the pedals... after all the driving I've done with it. I still think the G25's pedals are far better than anything Logitech has ever made. If you look at nearly all of Logitech's pots and inner-workings of the pedals, you'll see that it is just simple plastic holdings and a small little cheap pot greased up for maximum breakage. The G25's pedal mechanics looks to be a better solution, and I am pretty sure nobody will have problems with them.

At least you can use the wheel and hook up the pedals and shifter seperately. I can only imagine companies like FREX making 3rd party pedals and shifters that will plug right into the G25 wheel unit. The G25 has got some really flexible features for "modding". Even bolt-on holes at the bottom for screwing it onto a cockpit, floor base... etc (Pedals, Shifter, & Wheel have whitesheets for such things)

[StanleyCarter]

I'm in Malaysia, and I want that wheel so bad.... grrrrr... getting one from here would be real tough.. even if I do... the price I need to pay... damn~!

Anyone in the same situation like me?? :(

[Bufalo]

So I'm trying a G25 right now with the game, and for some reason, despite how I configure the Wheel Turn Degrees in the control options, the wheel will only operate as 180 degrees. Anyone else try this at all? I know it's not on the market yet, and only a few of us actually HAVE a G25, but if anyone's been playing with it and have any advice, I'm all ears!!

[Krane]

I guess you need to install the drivers and set the wheel rotation degree in control panel or Logitech Profiler (or what ever program the wheel comes with)

[Bufalo]

It was in the control panel. I didn't even think to look there... Thanks people!

[Gabkicks]

plz plz plz post a video of you drifting lol. i want to see how much faster the wheel is with 900degrees or at least 720 :D

as krane said, there is a place in both global and specific game settings to adjust the steering lock if you check "use specific wheel settings" at the bottom :D

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame. I'm guessing you would set up the g25 the same as the DFP. links to those settings are in my sig below

[Shotglass]

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame.

you could always just set wheel turn compensation to 0 and use any value for rotation

[Tweaker]

you could always just set wheel turn compensation to 0 and use any value for rotation
Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

Just matching whatever rotation the car really is isn't a hassle. I'd never use 900 degrees on a car that uses something less :pillepall

[Shotglass]

Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

dont worry i was just pointing out a faster way to get full 900 working to try drifting at it which should be more fun than 720 as long as the wheel really is fast enough

[Gabkicks]

Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

Just matching whatever rotation the car really is isn't a hassle. I'd never use 900 degrees on a car that uses something less :pillepall

he;s a demo user tho, so he cant drive the mrt under normal circumstances :)

[Bufalo]

I've only DL'd the game just to test out the wheel too! I've barely gotten past the first four training modules...

I've got it hooked up at my desk at work. I work for Logitech's biggest US wholesale distributor as one of their product managers, so I get all their cool stuff first. ;) Pretty much, I just want to see how it works on a good simulator. As I hardly ever play games like this, I'm REALLY behind the ball on getting used to it all. Right now, it's hooked to a pretty basic laptop at the side of my desk, and between emails and calls from our sales people, I've been trying to get the hang of it.

Video of drifting? hah... More like videos of gross understeer and crashes! I'll figure this out soon enough, I'll probably bring it home for the long weekend, hook it up to a real computer here, and actually work to get a feel for "driving" the game. Once I figure that out, I'll probably ante up for a real license of the game as well.


I dunno if it's taboo or whatever, but has anyone tried GTR2? Supposedly that will work with all the G25's functions (three pedals / shifter / 900*) as well?

[Tweaker]

I dunno if it's taboo or whatever, but has anyone tried GTR2? Supposedly that will work with all the G25's functions (three pedals / shifter / 900*) as well?
GTR2 should be no different than LFS, rFactor, Nascar 2003, etc etc. I am sure using the G25 is easy as pie... maybe you've set something up wrong.

LFS works with 900 degrees, supports three pedals, and a shifter. I am not sure what makes it hard to figure out. Haven't got it setup right? Or not used to how challenging the game is? :) It isn't your average arcade hit'em-up-turn-at-insane-speeds---game. ;)

[Bufalo]

Oh no! I've got it all set up right, I'm just getting used to the game itself. Once someone said "hey dumbass, look in the control panel..." I got it all configured.

It's the simple fact of playing the game, that's what's got me. It'll take some practice to get used to it all.

I haven't DL'd GTR2 yet, any preferences? I would suspect than on an LFS forum, people will be partial to this game. :D It's the first one I've tried, so I'm just getting a feel for them all. Frankly, the closest thing I've come to playing a racing game at all is when my roommates bug me to play Burnout on the X360 with them. BLeh...

[Tweaker]

It's the first one I've tried, so I'm just getting a feel for them all.
Well you've made a wise first choice :). Compared to Burnout... heh, LFS is nothing like that. If you practice with LFS and get really good at it, you can pretty much be good at any other racing game. I find LFS to be the most challenging, and other "simulations" are just a walk in the park after you've become acustomed to LFS.

[Gabkicks]

Oh no! I've got it all set up right, I'm just getting used to the game itself. Once someone said "hey dumbass, look in the control panel..." I got it all configured.

It's the simple fact of playing the game, that's what's got me. It'll take some practice to get used to it all.

I haven't DL'd GTR2 yet, any preferences? I would suspect than on an LFS forum, people will be partial to this game. :D It's the first one I've tried, so I'm just getting a feel for them all. Frankly, the closest thing I've come to playing a racing game at all is when my roommates bug me to play Burnout on the X360 with them. BLeh...


yeah gtr2 is fun as well. not as realistic and not as good force feedback as lfs, but still its a fun game to play. I reccomend at least 400 degrees with the dfp. you'll probably want to try 540 at least with the g25 :)

[StanleyCarter]

Bufalo, you seriously have to show videos of you driving in LFS with the G25 (if possible)

Possible for you to write some more in depth review/impression on the wheel itself?
o yeah....Can you tell your boss to ship some over to Malaysia? lol

[Shinrar]

Bufalo,
Also, I know more than one person was iffy about the lack of a source about the news if the shifter had been fixed...

Have you ever driven a manual transmission in real life? If so, how does it compare?

If not, how well can you describe how it 'feels'?
Does it bounce back to between 3rd and 4th gear if you put it in neutral and let it go? Does it feel easy to slide it into gear, or do you have to fight it? Can you really easily accidently bump the shifter and have it go -out- of gear? What about the springs? (Incase you're wondering, a few early product demonstrations were done for user feedback and improvements. One of the big complaints was the shifter and these issues. Though they were not production models (meaning they could sitll make improvements), I don't recall seeing any actual, official, word that they had adjusted the shifter. I'm just reall curious :D )

Man, I can't wait until October... I accidently broke my Black Momo when I was working around the house, and I yanked the USB wire out of it's housing (so much that I can see the four colored wires and their copper ends). Rather than replace it, I'm focusing on skinning and the like for the moment, and buying the G25 when it comes out.

And the best part? My birthday is in October! Woop! And I should have my S2 license between now and then, so come the G25, all will be good.

[B11TME]

plz plz plz post a video of you drifting lol. i want to see how much faster the wheel is with 900degrees or at least 720 :D

as krane said, there is a place in both global and specific game settings to adjust the steering lock if you check "use specific wheel settings" at the bottom :D

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame. I'm guessing you would set up the g25 the same as the DFP. links to those settings are in my sig below

Here is one of me drifting with the DFP on 900 deg mode. G25 would be something the same i think only that the wheel is little bigger...And yes i do sit that close to the screen because i aint got much room behind me :P And no i am not a drifter...This movie was requested by one of my team m8s lol

[Gabkicks]

i already have a dfp -_- when it came out and i've been drifting with it ever since...

[jollyeskimo]

Any Canadians who are interested in one of these might want to look at these two links:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=08336F&vpn=963416-0403&manufacture=LOGITECH

http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=18406

If ~ $240 CAD (~ $215 USD) is going to be the wheel's actual street price when it comes out (which I believe is fairly accurate since both are reputable and unreleated e-tailers, both listing a similar price), then this is probably much more of a bargain than the initial MRSP of $299.99USD.

[Balki]

There are a couple of places that I've found:

http://www.gameseek.co.uk/pd/Multis556hcgkrfv/Logitech-G25-Steering-Racing-Wheel

and

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=324740

I've not pre-ordered *yet*... :tilt:

[Stellios]

Im tempted to get this like, but im saving up for a car.

Hmmmmmmmmm.....

[BigDave2967]

I have the DFP anyway, so I'm happy :).

[Robster230]

I'm very tempted, not because I like having the latest toys (although i do) but mainly cos of the shifter, and the 3rd pedal and the general quality over all....

But £200ish is a lot! Guess it depends how much I can get for my DFP, they'll be all over ebay i'm betting :shy:

[troy]

in switzerland you can get the g25 already for 110£
dont ask me why they are so cheap here :)
but im sure if you search a bit more you will find a better price also

[troy]

http://www.techmania.ch/details.asp?ID=209456&sessionID=1200
but they dont ship/send outside of switzerland (the price is in swiss franks)

[filur]

I've got a H-shifter which i basically never use, i've also got a second wheel / pedals for clutch which i basically never use. At first i thought i'd go for the g25 right away but i think i'll properly wear out the DFP first. :)

[i30i3i3y]

I'll most likely get one even though I only got my DFP a few months ago. At £110 I'd get one right now :D. Even at £200-ish it seems a somewhat reasonable price for the immersion you'd get. If it's a tradeoff between competitiveness and immersion, the latter always wins for me.

edit: I did find this the other day, http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=324740

[BBO@BSR]

http://www.techmania.ch/details.asp?ID=209456&sessionID=1200
but they dont ship/send outside of switzerland (the price is in swiss franks)

in switzerland you can get the g25 already for 110£
dont ask me why they are so cheap here :)


I checked your link and my Bank tells me:
264.05 Swiss franc = 167.056 Euro not 110.

and google means:
264,05 Swiss franc = 166,920941 Euro

Edit: I didn't read it properly you wrote £ not € ;-)

[BBO@BSR]

He said £110, not euros.

Your right. Sorry for mixing £ and €.
Think I should reduce my screen resolution :D

[TiJay]

buying in oct :)

[Tweaker]

It is probably cheaper in Switzerland because Logitech is a Swiss company and based there :p

[buedi]

I will get one I am sure. Because a Clutch + H-Shifter is a Dream I have since I have a Wheel (before the Dream was a Wheel when we had those Digital Joysticks on the C64 but you never get satisfied. I am sure the next Dream is a Force Dynamics LOL).

But I won´t preorder. When it´s there I will get one... maybe when I read one or 2 Reviews in some Forums. Just in case it´s crap but I don´t think so.

[Gabkicks]

i am gonna go from DFP to G25 :D

[Bob Smith]

I will go from Black Momo to G25. Although 540 degrees should be enough for any man!

[jollyeskimo]

Going from DFP to G25.... already put my preorder in at NCIX for $240-ish CAD

I bet you I'm gonna take the pedals apart the first week and mount them to the floor or something. They look insanely sturdy.

[deggis]

Black MOMO to G25... though haven't pre-ordered it yet. Don't know when I'm gonna buy it but I will right after my wallet stops giving me a middle finger. :D

[Bob Smith]

There are a couple of places that I've found:

http://www.gameseek.co.uk/pd/Multis556hcgkrfv/Logitech-G25-Steering-Racing-Wheel

and

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?sku=324740

I've not pre-ordered *yet*... :tilt:

I'm tempted to pre-order with gameseek atm... 16 days until release sounds very tempting.

£185.98 delivered seems fair too.

Edit: OK, pre-ordered.

[Shinrar]

On noticing that Geekseek's website had an actual release date posted on it, I went looking at other distributors (in the US), such as Amazon and the like. A shame, none of them have a release date :(. And the logitech website just says 'october' (which, actually, geekseek says its really late september. Global? European? Or are the distributors mis-informed?).

I really hope its the beginning of october (or end of september!) that it's released, rather than sometime mid- to late-Oeptember. I've been wheelless too long. I'd probably also end up buying both the wheel and my license at the same time, hehe. Spend the days while I'm waiting for my wheel to arrive... Well, wishing my wheel was here. Me and my mouse don't agree so-far as racing is concerned.

Maybe I'll use the time to perfectly setup my wheel so its comfortable, natural, and situated in a custom built desk :tilt:. Hrm... My uncle does carpentry...

[bo-kristiansen]

I will just wear out my DFP first, and by the time its nackered,
Logitech will have released a new version of G25 with MORE buttons on the wheel.

:razz:

[NotAnIllusion]

I think it depends on a couple of things whether I will or not, and when if I do. I'm not going to pre-order it because it's £160 for something that could well prove not to be worth it judging by what I've read on the H-shifter and the amount of buttons and their placement. Also, even if it turns out to be "all good" I'm not going to buy it if the post-release prices skyrocket, as it's limited edition.

If it lives up to my expectations and stays around the original release price or lower, I might indeed get it. Still, I feel I'm wasting a perfectly good MOMO Racing Force because apart from the occasional DXTweak2 to neutralise any pedal spikes and a broken shifter part there is nothing wrong with it.

[Tweaker]

I will just wear out my DFP first, and by the time its nackered,
Logitech will have released a new version of G25 with MORE buttons on the wheel.

:razz:
They won't be making a wheel for a long time after the G25 is out of stock.... :tilt: (true)

[NotAnIllusion]

I can't find any figures, but I found a reference to the "limitedness" in an RSC thread:

Most likely scenario is that in three years time it will either no longer be available or if it is, it will still be premium priced (albeit maybe reduced)
So I think even if that's a hyperbole, it will be available new in retail shops a year after the launch.

[deggis]

"Limited edition" does not mean 100 or 1000 or 5000 units. There will be a specific, unannounced (as yet) number manufactured, but I guarantee that everyone here who wants one will be able to get one if they try to.
:)

[Rtsbasic]

Can the G25 be purchased in the UK yet, regardless of price?

I already have a Act Labs shifter + 3 pedal set, and modified DFP with real car wheel, but would like my shift paddles back. Wouldn't mind a quieter shifter as well. As much as I hate to say it the Logi pedals look a bit better as well.

Wonder if the shifter will be any good or not..apparently the ones they had a few months ago felt pretty sloppy.

[Shinrar]

Wonder if the shifter will be any good or not..apparently the ones they had a few months ago felt pretty sloppy.

From what I understand, the ones they had about at the time were demonstration models, not production models. One of the goals of it was to take notes on 'areas for improvement', and because everyone complained about the shifter...

Lets just hope Logitech listened :D

[Tweaker]

Does anyone know how "limited" the G25 actually is?
It's estimated at 100,000 units to be produced.

Add that all up, that's a lot of money they will be making :)

[Flycantbird]

I'll make the switch to G25, but from the Momo Black.

I'm not that disatisfied with the Black, I just think the G25 will be that much better. Plus I'm worried about the age of my current one ( about 2 years of hard use).

I'll keep it around for banger racing, though:thumb:
( or put it in the G25 box and return it for a refund, as someone suggested in another post).

[ATHome]

I'll think I'll do that swap soon :D

[Highsider9]

http://www.techmania.ch/details.asp?ID=209456&sessionID=1200
but they dont ship/send outside of switzerland (the price is in swiss franks)

Thanks! Thats the lowest price i've seen so far. :thumb: :D

[jayhawk]

I will buy it in 6 months or so, after Christmas. That way I can get a nice present for my wife, and hopefully she wont murder me for investing $300 on a toy for a computer game.

As of right now, my DFP is a good piece of equipment, and not something I would want to discard too quickly.

[Tanpax]

Ive already pre-ordered mine :). 245€ ... it's not that expensive after all. :thumb:

[bbman]

I've ordered mine just yesterday for 220 €... Luckiest are the germans (as always), I found one for 200 €, but I would never say where (http://www.geizhals.at)... :razz:

[Tanpax]

I've ordered mine just yesterday for 220 €... Luckiest are the germans (as always), I found one for 200 €, but I would never say where (http://www.geizhals.at)... :razz:

Yes but with the shipping fies, it'll cost me about the same.

Nope you're wrong, luckiest are the richest :D.

It doesnt matter how much I pay as long as i have mine :nod:.

Edit: I've found the store where youv'e found the wheel for 200€, but why didnt you buy on it ? Is there any probleme with that store ? Ive actually pre-ordered, but I still havent paid. So do you have any feedback concerning the store ?

[frokki]

300€ in Finland, delivery in October.
I bet you central europe racers will get yours weeks before I do :|

[bbman]

Yes but with the shipping fies, it'll cost me about the same.

Nope you're wrong, luckiest are the richest :D.

It doesnt matter how much I pay as long as i have mine :nod:.

Edit: I've found the store where youv'e found the wheel for 200€, but why didnt you buy on it ? Is there any probleme with that store ? Ive actually pre-ordered, but I still havent paid. So do you have any feedback concerning the store ?

It's the same reason as you: I didn't order it abroad as shipping would get me to the same price as in the store I ordered it where I can go to and get it myself... ;)

[Gabkicks]

i am starting to really become obsessed. i cant stop checking websites -_-.

[Tanpax]

i am starting to really become obsessed. i cant stop checking websites -_-.
:D. The videos on Youtube have confirmed my thoughs ... It have to be mine.

[Rtsbasic]

Definately gonna get one after seeing how fast it snaps back, might stick with my old shifter though, the logi one doesn't look like its very solid compared to the Act Labs one.

[Tweaker]

Definately gonna get one after seeing how fast it snaps back, might stick with my old shifter though, the logi one doesn't look like its very solid compared to the Act Labs one.
This is the sound it makes when you plug it in and it does a self calibration test from lock to lock in 900 degree mode. At around the 10 sec mark is when it starts from one side and goes to the other.

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=52a021c4151ef497e763e55f4373481f

It is approximately 3 seconds to spin fully in one direction.

[tristancliffe]

Despite the fact I have ECCI pedals (only two pedals, might have to upgrade them then), and despite the fact I am in love with Frex gear (which requires a DFP) I have bitten the bullet at pre-ordered my very own G25 from Komplett...

I'm not even entirely convinced about some aspects of the design (lack of wheel buttons, but I guess I don't need clutch and neutral anymore, so they can be look left/right, and the wheel is a little big for me), but the shifter, clutch pedal and metallic construction have won me over.

Apparently they are shipping them on the 13th October, so I have a couple of weeks (or three) waiting anxiously. And I don't play LFS that much either, so I must either love LFS or be a complete fool. Or both.

But I'm grinning with anticipation anyway :D

[deggis]

This is the sound it makes when you plug it in and it does a self calibration test from lock to lock in 900 degree mode. At around the 10 sec mark is when it starts from one side and goes to the other.

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=52a021c4151ef497e763e55f4373481f

It is approximately 3 seconds to spin fully in one direction.
It makes the self calibration only when plugging the cable? Not when you restart computer?

Sometimes my MOMO has made lock-to-lock self calibration (usually after computer crash) while loading Windows and it has almost fell off to the floor because hasn't been attached to the table. :(

ps. there is something really f*cked up in that .mp3 file. BSplayer completely crashed, took 98 % CPU Usage and it took 3 mins to get Ctrl+Alt+Del menu so I could shut it down. :mad: With Media Player Classic it worked...

[Tweaker]

Restarting the computer or plugging into USB, it does the self calibration no matter what.

MP3 works fine here. Its a crap one converted from Windows Sound Recorder though, lol. I have no clue what BSPlayer is, I use Winamp :p

[deggis]

Restarting the computer or plugging into USB, it does the self calibration no matter what.
well that really sucks then :( Are you sure it's not a test version "feature"? I can't have it attached to the table all the time. I guess I have to disconnect the cable when it's not attached to the table. Looks like if I don't it will fell 70 cm straight to the floor everytime I start my computer...

ps. BSplayer is just a media player, I think I have had similar tilting problem with some other files too. Maybe the codec in the files are somehow fubar or then it's a fault in the player.

[Tweaker]

Well sure, plug it in when you want to use it. No sense in having it just sit there plugged in for however long you don't play. I've left it plugged in when I restart, and when it is just sitting/resting on top of my desk, but it never falls off, lol.

[deggis]

I just realised that... well I can't explain in English so made this extremely well :D drawn picture:

http://torttu.net/temp/wheel_lol.jpg

I don't know have you had black MOMO but as you see the actual steering wheel touches the table when it just sits there.

So is it like that with G25? At least it looks like in the pictures. If yes then I guess I don't need to worry about this. :)