Why not more tracks?

[Speed Soro]

Why not Erik?

Sure we have many layouts, but just 6 tracks after 4 years...

Please, there is no prevision about new tracks? Not new layouts, but new tracks.

[Micaoct]

Im sure when the time is right they will be released. We just have to be patient. :thumb:

[xaotik]

Sure we have many layouts, but just 6 tracks after 4 years...

To be the devil's advocate here, we have 6 complete environments, with a distinct/different feel to each of them. Content don't come easy, especially if it's just one person doing the design, modelling and texturing. Don't forget he has also to make the cockpit models of several cars as well (which according to some interview were in the works).

Not that I'd ever complain for more environments. :)

[Captain Slow]

i think alot of new people forget theres only 3 people making everything. theres always someone asking for new tracks/cars/features. most of the time are impossible because of liscensing. hats of to them i say. for making it as good as it is up till now.

[XCNuse]

i'd like to see you model a track in half a year and fix all the bugs in it after making it, and then mapping it, and then comming up with textures for it

[Eldanor]

I'm sure Eric is working hard in the new GTR interiors and other stuff :thumb:

[deggis]

I'd take revised tracks instead of completely new tracks. Fern Bay needs to be graphically updated and especially Aston needs some remaking with with some corners. There are just too many completely stupid and unrealistic corners in LFS tracks in general.

[axus]

Fern Bay is indeed one hell of a layout - just needs fixing up. :)

[Marty502]

I'd take revised tracks instead of completely new tracks. Fern Bay needs to be graphically updated and especially Aston needs some remaking with with some corners. There are just too many completely stupid and unrealistic corners in LFS tracks in general.

What Aston corners do you say are unrealistic? :scratchch

[srdsprinter]

I kind of like fern bay with its "rough edges". It feels like a circuit thats not fully developed with full spectator and safety standards. While it certainly doesn't suit open wheelers, for street cars like a club circuit I like it... :shrug:

[deggis]

What Aston corners do you say are unrealistic? :scratchch
"Mini Eau Rouge" for example - yeah it's similar to Laguna Seca's corkscrew but Aston is supposed to be a modern GP track. The problem is that you can just ram it in 200 km/h speed which is just unrealistic. Though the problem is in the damage and bit of tyre physics also. Other corner I would like to be changed is that chicane type of thing before the start straight in AS Nat config, it's just weird. In overall LFS just needs more slow and sharp corners, especially Aston and also the chicanes in KY GP needs to made slower, now you can also just ram over those.

ps. How do you know about anything Aston's corners, you're a demo racer, at least it says so under your nick... :really: :D

[Vain]

I think that the number of track enviroments is okay.
They just feel too similar.
Kyoto, Aston and Westhill are wide and smooth high-speed tracks.
South City and Fern bay are the only tracks that are technically challenging.
(Blackwood is somewhere between. It has boring sections and interesting sections.)

Eric loves "straight, brake, corner, straight, brake, two similar corners, straight, brake, corner, straight, etc."-type of tracks. A lot drivers don't.

Vain

[Speed Soro]

I want more tracks. Simples as that.

6 tracks is not enough. We have got championships here, with always the same 6 tracks...

I don't think there are something wrong with any corner. Straight, brake, curve is what any track is. Except of course the boring ovals.

Each curve, each corner, you do how you can, so, if must to reduce your speed, just do it. There are nothing wrong. The tracks are waht they are.

What we need is more variation, more tracks we different look, different chalenge.

We don't need a new Fern Bay or a new Black wood, but new tracks.

And ok, it must not be easy to do, but it is not impossible.

And why not open the track modeling to a selected team of colaborators?

I'm here not criticizing nobody, but just asking, WHY NOT MORE TRACKS?

[ajp71]

Why not Erik?

Sure we have many layouts, but just 6 tracks after 4 years...

Please, there is no prevision about new tracks? Not new layouts, but new tracks.

Your currently on my ignore list for nagging about patch updates, there's no pleasing some :pillepall

[JJ72]

Well, who say there won't be more tracks?

There WILL be more tracks, just not now. It's purely a factor of time they can put in such work, when things like car models also needs fixing.

Actually, everyone wants more tracks.

[xaotik]

And why not open the track modeling to a selected team of colaborators?

I'm sure that if they change their current mode of operations we'll learn about it, but as it stands LFS is a 3 person team - that's what they've chosen to do and that's how it is. *shrug*

I'm here not criticizing nobody, but just asking, WHY NOT MORE TRACKS?

I don't think there is a "why" in this. And I am also quite certain that if Eric could eat some beans, strain a bit and fart tracks he'd be doing it all day long and we'd be sniffing them up. But I guess he's not one for pulses. My point is, if he could make extra complete track environments on a time schedule that pleased every single one of us then I am more than certain that he would.

[ruckus37]

Dude I am still trying to get the time guys were doing around blackwood 4 years ago, master these tracks and then complain about more tracks.-.

In reality tracks are not intraduced all the time, some have been around since the early 70's.... and are still in operation ( layouts) look for a modabl sim like rfactor if you need more variety, let this sim be.. it is good as it is, just wait for more dev..

ruckus37

[Vain]

This discussion isn't about "I can do WR pace on all tracks, gimme more tracks!" at all.
If it was we wouldn't need more than the dragstrip, because there is always just one WR holder and according to your explanation all others should go and master driving in a straight line before complaining.
This discussion is about "I like this track" or "I don't like this track". There are people who like the Oval, there are people who like the dragstrip, and there are people who dislike all currently available tracks in LFS or like only very few of these tracks and want some variety.

Vain

[ruckus37]

This discussion isn't about "I can do WR pace on all tracks, gimme more tracks!" at all.
If it was we wouldn't need more than the dragstrip, because there is always just one WR holder and according to your explanation all others should go and master driving in a straight line before complaining.
This discussion is about "I like this track" or "I don't like this track". There are people who like the Oval, there are people who like the dragstrip, and there are people who dislike all currently available tracks in LFS or like only very few of these tracks and want some variety.

Vain

ok you got me if you want more tracks look at rfactor and let the dev's be.......

[Lible]

No, not more tracks neither cars, not yet. The only reason I see for new tracks is leagues, yeah, it would be more realistic. I think LFS has pretty much of variety - Blackwood is a nice race track in England, but not very official. South City is... well... something like Monaco, a very good and technical track. Fern Bay is a nice club track, not very official, please don't make it a race circuit, like you did with Blackwood. All of the previous tracks have both fast and slow configs. All of the S2 tracks are fast (like the cars), very official, especcialy Aston.

[BigDave2967]

I want more tracks. Simples as that.

6 tracks is not enough. We have got championships here, with always the same 6 tracks...

I don't think there are something wrong with any corner. Straight, brake, curve is what any track is. Except of course the boring ovals.

Each curve, each corner, you do how you can, so, if must to reduce your speed, just do it. There are nothing wrong. The tracks are waht they are.

What we need is more variation, more tracks we different look, different chalenge.

We don't need a new Fern Bay or a new Black wood, but new tracks.

And ok, it must not be easy to do, but it is not impossible.

And why not open the track modeling to a selected team of colaborators?

I'm here not criticizing nobody, but just asking, WHY NOT MORE TRACKS?


One word: rFactor

[Vain]

One word: rFactorI know an absolutely unrelated word to that one! Physics.
:tilt:

Vain

[ruckus37]

I know an absolutely unrelated word to that one! Physics.
:tilt:

Vain

Try a mod of rfactor, i hated the vinilla rfactor util the 2005 and the 1979 f1 mod, new Physics, wicked....

[BigDave2967]

I know an absolutely unrelated word to that one! Physics.
:tilt:

Vain

Touche. Not having played the game full time myself, I take it that the game lacks physics compared to LFS?

[ruckus37]

Touche. Not having played the game full time myself, I take it that the game lacks physics compared to LFS?

BigDave a completly modable game,......

[BigDave2967]

BigDave a completly modable ganme,......

Ok thanks for the info.

[ruckus37]

Ok thanks for the info.

np

[Jakg]

Ok thanks for the info.basically, instead of it coming with anything good by default - you need to spend a couple of hours on RSC (that is before the rTractor page even loads!) trying to find some "stuff" for it, only to realise that the LFS physics are better. Oh what fun!

[ruckus37]

basically, instead of it coming with anything good by default - you need to spend a couple of hours on RSC (that is before the rTractor page even loads!) trying to find some "stuff" for it, only to realise that the LFS physics are better. Oh what fun!


http://www.rfactorcentral.com

[axus]

I want more tracks. Simples as that.

6 tracks is not enough. We have got championships here, with always the same 6 tracks...

I don't think there are something wrong with any corner. Straight, brake, curve is what any track is. Except of course the boring ovals.

Each curve, each corner, you do how you can, so, if must to reduce your speed, just do it. There are nothing wrong. The tracks are waht they are.

What we need is more variation, more tracks we different look, different chalenge.

We don't need a new Fern Bay or a new Black wood, but new tracks.

And ok, it must not be easy to do, but it is not impossible.

And why not open the track modeling to a selected team of colaborators?

I'm here not criticizing nobody, but just asking, WHY NOT MORE TRACKS?

ZzZzzZZzZ

You're speaking for everyone here, aren't you? For one, I'd love a revised Fern Bay beacuse its just such an awesome track for the driver but it makes you squint because its so ugly right now. For sure, I'd like more tracks but have you learnt Kyoto, Westhill and Aston with the GTR's (ie, max about 2s off the pace)? Or Aston North, South City and Fern Bay with the LX's? Or Blackwood with the XFR and UFR? Or mastered the Formula V8 which is probably suited to more tracks than any other car in LFS at the moment? And those are just my favourite combos off the top of my head. There are many great ones that I haven't even driven.

Would you like half-arsed enviroments like that new version of Barcelona in GTR2 where you can't find the same brake point for two laps in a row on half the corners? I'd prefer fewer environments but ones where I can race consistently and enjoy it and most LFS tracks do a great job of this for me. As I understand it, Kyoto improvements are already in the pipeline for the next patch. Westhill is also a bit dead at the moment - I'd like to see it come to life because I think it would be about 10x as brilliant as it is (in a fast car) with a proper environment. There's so many things to use as reference for braking and turn-in at South City, Aston and Blackwood.... and Fern Bay too, but its just feeling its age. Fern Bay has some of the best corner sequences ever, please don't let it die. Honestly, I think Eric should just finish the current environments before starting any new ones. Throw good interiors in and then get cracking on whatever other tracks for S3 (*cough*ortherallypack*cough*). I'm sure many share my oppinion of the need for tracks to be properly made. :shrug:

[BigDave2967]

As a fantasy dream with LFS Physics, I'd love to try out Monaco on the BF1. Just imagine how much that track would be used for championships :D

[ruckus37]

As a fantasy dream with LFS Physics, I'd love to try out Monaco on the BF1. Just imagine how much that track would be used for championships :D


2nd corner wicked.....

[ruckus37]

If you have not tried the 2005 f1 mod and the Bahrain International track, do yourslef the favor.

LfS phsic... are better, but still-......

[BigDave2967]

If you have not tried the 2005 f1 mod and the Bahrain International track, do yourslef the favor.

LfS phsic... are better, but still-......

Don't have rfactor, LFS got me hooked :)

[MAGGOT]

In overall LFS just needs more slow and sharp corners

Oh God, please don't turn LFS into an FIA-Track-Sim. In general, I hate slow sharp corners. They destroy the flow of a race track. You CAN have a technically challenging track without having stupid slow corners.

I just want a Mosport-esque track in LFS. That's it. Just that, and I will be happy. The current LFS tracks are too flat for my tastes; I like heart-stopping elevation changes, high speeds and flowing tracks. Not flat stop-and-go tracks.

[ruckus37]

Don't have rfactor, LFS got me hooked :)

Dave no doubt LFS is better with Physics, out of bounds (grass and sand etc) but rfactor does have the veriaty you are looking for.

[ruckus37]

Oh God, please don't turn LFS into an FIA-Track-Sim. In general, I hate slow sharp corners. They destroy the flow of a race track. You CAN have a technically challenging track without having stupid slow corners.

I just want a Mosport-esque track in LFS. That's it. Just that, and I will be happy. The current LFS tracks are too flat for my tastes; I like heart-stopping elevation changes, high speeds and flowing tracks. Not flat stop-and-go tracks.

Monaco

[axus]

You CAN have a technically challenging track without having stupid slow corners.

Agreed - Westhill is a great example of this (especially in reverse), and so is Kyoto GP Long. Assuming that you have a fast car, that is. Aston's pretty good for a high speed track in some configs too. I think we just need more bumps to make racing on the limit a bit more interesting. :)

[RoCkBiGdAvE]

I want more tracks. Simples as that.
That statement reminds me of a shit tv show called "Sweet 16". They WANT something, then they get it then they want more... :pillepall

[MAGGOT]

Monaco

Huh? Are you saying Monaco is a fast flowing track?

Or, did you mean Monaco is an exciting track with sharp corners? I agree with you there. Like I said "In general" I don't like sharp corners. There are exceptions, of course.

[Jakg]

I like heart-stopping elevation changes, high speeds and flowing tracks. Not flat stop-and-go tracks.i want something like the 'ring (WAIT on the flaming!)

What i mean is that STYLE, with the rather large changes in elevation (of course i want slightly more kerbing!), which uses the force of gravity to shoot your car into a corner

[ruckus37]

Huh? Are you saying Monaco is a fast flowing track?

Or, did you mean Monaco is an exciting track with sharp corners? I agree with you there. Like I said "In general" I don't like sharp corners. There are exceptions, of course.

yep: Monaco is an exciting track with sharp corners ..

[deggis]

please don't make it a race circuit, like you did with Blackwood.
http://www.marcls-home.de/files/index.php?categoryid=8&p13_sectionid=13&p13_fileid=59 :thumb:

Oh God, please don't turn LFS into an FIA-Track-Sim. In general, I hate slow sharp corners. They destroy the flow of a race track. You CAN have a technically challenging track without having stupid slow corners.
I didn't mean I'd like to have tilkenized tracks (= destroyed by Hermann Tilke :D). With sharper I mostly meant tighter turns, take a look at Aston for example, the corners are simply too wide and too smooth. It's like an airfield.

And there are no "slow" chicanes in LFS at all. E.g. the ones in KY GP are clearly meant to be slow chicanes but you can just ram over the curbs which is so damn annoying, stupid and unrealistic.

[Madman_CZ]

And there no "slow" chicanes in LFS at all. E.g. the ones in KY GP are clearly meant to be slow chicanes but you can just ram over the curbs which is so damn annoying, stupid and unrealistic.

yeah, we need some slow chicanes to add to the mix of the already present corner collection in LFS. I mean lfs has chicanes but they are or can be all taken flat out. Fern bay has a few but you can just throw the car in without descreasing speed by much. I quite like what they did with the Bus stop at Spa. It use to be a fast chicane but they changed it and made it a lot longer so now cars are forced to reduce speed drastically and take the chicane properly..

+1 for Chicanes

[keiran]

I want more tracks. Simples as that.

6 tracks is not enough. We have got championships here, with always the same 6 tracks...


Thats the poorest excuse I've ever came across. Most real life championships go to the same tracks time after time after time, every so often they introduce a new one but in a whole a lot of them go to the same tracks.

LFS has more than 6 tracks, I define a track as including all the different layouts as in the end they are different layouts.

With a bit of imagination I don't think it's to hard to come up with a championship with different tracks each season... :shrug:

[JohnPenn]

I like mosport, flows like fine wine and gives you nosebleeds with the elevation changes:)

John

[DodgeRacer]

I'd love to do some tracks for LFS lol, i'm one of the few remaining track creators for nascar 2003 (i focus on road corses) and i just dont get much response from it, but my diehard road course fans love them, they would be just increadible in LFS :-p

[mrodgers]

Let me put something together real quick and see if you can agree or disagree with this.

Westhill, only has 2 configurations and that's regular and reverse. I concider regular and reverse configs not different layouts. Another track that we have that is only reg and reverse configs is Blackwood.

So, we have Kyoto. Folks complain that we only have 6 tracks and run the same ones over and over again. They also complain that you can't count the different layouts for each track because they are all the same. In Kyoto you have oval, National, and GP Long. Not a one of those are similar. They all drive completely different and only share a portion of the oval with each other.

So now we have 5, BL1, WE1, KY1, KY2, and KY3. We move to Aston. National seems to be the easiest and most frequently used track in mostly GTR's and FOX. Then you move to Club, a really nice short track usually run in XFR or FOX, but I've had some really nice racing in the big GTR's there. Nothing like National where it only shares a short section of the front stretch. The final chicane is nothing alike for these to layouts since you enter it in club completely different. I was never fond of Historic, and it does share much of the newer config I do like, which is North. This track starts at Club, moves into the reversed back section of Historic and down the corkscrew, and back to the short shared front section of Club. Drives nothing like either National or Club. I haven't really driven GT at all, but I do like GP, the longest configuration in LFS. I do love this config, and even though it shares the back section of North, it is reversed from that so drives differently. That puts us with 4 viable configs that all drive different than each other at Aston. I also didn't stick Cadet in here as that I feel is just good for the little cars, but opinions of course vary.

Add the Aston layouts to our total and we move up to 9 viable different "tracks" so far for league racing. Looking at South City, we have 5 configs where Sprint 1 and Sprint 2 are completely separate from each other. I don't have much experience with SO except with Classic mostly in the MRT and SO Long. I would definitely put Long into the mix of a league series, as well as maybe Sprint 1. Then, instead of putting Classic or Sprint 2 in the mix as I feel they are just too short for proper league racing, we can combine them and use SO Town Course giving us 3 more layouts that drive different.

We move on with our now 12 layouts for league use to Fern Bay. We have 4 configs not including the rally tracks. Two of them, Green and Gold are, again, completely separated from each other. Both are excellent tracks, and if you combine them, you get the fantastic Black track, another long one. All three of these are great, but I will disregard Black since it does share the entire lengths of both Green and Gold. So, there are 2 more.

That puts our total to 14 tracks to use for league use. Combine that with the fact that many of these are also excellent and drive completely different in reverse configuration, you easily could have a total of 28 tracks at your disposal for league racing. Tell me, which league runs 28 races? Is there one? I don't know.

If you are still reading this way down here, I can see why folks would like more tracks. Variety is the spice of life and many of the configs are suited more for one car class than the other. I am basing all that above on the GTR's as that is what I like to drive. But if you could do it for GTR's, then they also easily suit the F08, FOX, baby GTR's, and possible even the LFR class. You might want to knock off a few of the longer stuff if going for the slower road cars. But then you also have other smaller configs to substitute for the long ones.

That all said, I do agree. I would love to have more different tracks than we have now. But I don't see any merit in the complaining that all we have is the same old tracks to use for leagues. Because there are plenty of variety in the configs to give you more than enough tracks for leagues. Using 28 tracks including the reverses of them gives you 7 months of once a week racing for leagues. I don't think I could last with racing the same league series for a solid 7 months straight.

Thank you and happy racing :D .

[SamH]

Great post, Mike. Comprehensive, as always! :)

To follow on, from my own perspective, I think the reason there are six different tracks with lots of different configurations, at this stage makes sense. They're all well-rounded courses - each configuration has merit in its own right.

What we have is efficient coding. Content is re-used, portions of each configuration can be found in other configurations, meaning that one track designer has been able to create a large number of exceptionally good configurations out of 6 locations. SO FAR. We know there's more to come.

So the simple answer to the original poster's question, for me, is that LFS isn't finished yet. The Devs are still working on it. It's not the end of the story. As Victor said, in a recent interview, the future possibilities are limitless. :thumb:

[STROBE]

"Mini Eau Rouge" for example - yeah it's similar to Laguna Seca's corkscrew but Aston is supposed to be a modern GP track.
To be fair, the "Mini Eau Rouge" (I prefer to call it simply the "dipped chicane" myself :p) originally only appeared on Cadet and Historic configs of Aston. The Historic config is nearly identical to the GP config with the exception of the dipped chicane being replaced by the infield section with the double hairpins - the obvious inference being that the infield is the new, sanitised version because the old dipped chicane is too mad/dangerous. And Aston Cadet is only really suitable for slower cars, where you can't get enough speed through the chicane to make it seem obviously unrealistic.

Having said that, I agree that the chicanes in the LFS Universe at the moment aren't good enough because they can all be taken too quickly, either as a result of the damage/physics modelling, or the actual track construction.

I'd also love to see more environments in LFS, rather than new configs - however there is of course only one modeller/graphic artist who designs the tracks, and there's only so much he can do. The environments and configs we have now are good fun, and present a good variety of tracks - from the super-fast Westhill to the right angles of South City, via the tight turns of Fern Bay. My complaint lies in the theming of the environments, because they're all just a bit too... similar.

Blackwood - a circuit in England, with a palette that represents the greens and greys of England.
Westhill - a circuit in the countryside of England, with a palette that represents the...
Aston - a circuit in the countryside of England, with a palette... oh you get the idea by now. And of course South City is inspired by parts of Greater London, judging by the road signs.

Only Fern Bay and the Kyoto complex offer any real difference in atmosphere and ambience. Kyoto works especially well I think - gives the feeling of a track in a bowl somewhere amongst a mountainous region of Japan. Fern Bay, despite it's graphical age, does have that sunny Jamaican feel to it.

What LFS would benefit from is more characterful environments. That doesn't mean they have to be unrealistic, because there really are racetracks of varying speed and substance in (for example) the heat and concrete and dust of Nevada or California, or amongst the forests and low sun of Scandinavia, or in the smog and dirt of a rarely used track on the outskirts of a huge sprawl like Mexico City. And they're just the ones off the top of my head, I'm sure there's countless more realistic settings for tracks in reality.

Them's the kind of things I'd love to see in LFS. :)

[Gunn]

Why not Erik?

Sure we have many layouts, but just 6 tracks after 4 years...

Please, there is no prevision about new tracks? Not new layouts, but new tracks.Why do you think there is no provision for new tracks? Is that just a guess?

[MAGGOT]

In all fairness, as stated, Eric is just one man. The fact that he has created 6 locales with several different variations in only 4 (5? 6?) years is a pretty amazing one. Look at how long it takes someone to create tracks of this calibre for rFactor. It takes several months of work for one track, let alone one locale with various configs.


Having said that, I do wish for more locations. I'm thinking a forested location; a la Mont Tremblant, and, you guessed it, Mosport. Of course, with massive elevation changes, fast, etc etc. Everything I've said hundreds of times by now ;)

[Hankstar]

A nice twisty, dry desert-ish track like Laguna Seca would make a nice change of scenery :up: As for Mosport and Mt Tremblant, my GPL experience tells me those two would both utterly rock in LFS :up::up:

In response to the OP though: I think "why not more tracks?" is the wrong question to be asking, as it implies the devs have decided not to make any new tracks, which wouldn't make any sense because LFS is a WIP. So, imho, a more thoughtful question would be "when will we see new tracks or new layouts?" or "what kind of new tracks are the devs thinking of?" That's my two cents anyway :shrug::)

[Hyperactive]

All the whining and bashing aside, none of the LFS tracks get on my top5 favourite track list. They just lack so many aspects and interesting points that a good race track has. Just few minutes ago I drove few laps in GPL. Tried Mosport, Laguna seca and Mexico. What a refreshing experience! And let's not forget Bathurst. Also my personal favourite, Blue Mountain Circuit from GPL. Below I have explained why I like these so much:

LFS totally lacks the highly technical inner sections of the Mexico where perfect line is everything, just a small mistake and the next few corners are lost too. Just painful when you go tens of laps doing little errors which cause the entire lap to go badly, but omg when you get it right! The Mexico is just so rewarding track with 2 totally different sides. The fast, long front straight which at the end turns to the right and tightens at the same time into a very slow chicane = you need to brake and turn in at the same time from full speed, while trying to get the best line out of it :thumb:. And then the technical "in-field" section. In Mexico most of the corners tighten toward the exit making it very technical and reqarding experience. Also the nature of most the corners is that at the beginning they have some postive camber but on the exit they get negative camber. Accelerating to the main staright out of the oval-alike fast, long corner which has negative camber in the end is one one the best main straight entries I've seen. It is just perfect example of good timing, advanced throttle control and precise driving line mixed with high speeds :).

Or Mosport with it's huge elevation differences and the fact that you are driving in a corner all the time. Blind corners, tightening corners = a gem of track with lots of personality. LFS may have elevation differences but 99% of the time they are dead flat with uninteresting corners that don't use the possibilities of the surroundings at all. Only place where I can think that the elevations have any noticable effect is the KY3R section after the bridge (the tighter corners after the oval exit) or the Aston corkscrew. Nothing comes even close to Mosport.

Or Laguna seca with its fast sweepers, ultra slow and dangerous blind turn-in corkscrew and a T1 that really tests how late you dare to brake and still manage it. Not the easiest place to pass but the nature of the corners allow all the racers to stay quite close on some places.

I guess most of you know Bathurst so I won't go into details with it but the awesome backstraight and the couple slow corners with "noticable" elevation differences really make me drive just one more lap.

And Blue Mountain Circuit! This is probably the most hardest track I've ever driven, thanks to the very high speeds and corners with no room for error. For the layout, check this: http://gpltd.bcsims.com/track_images/bluemt/map/map-bluemt.pdf. I know it looks a bit boring but try it in GPL (I think there is rfactor version of it, haven't personally tried it) and you will love it. It is a fantasy track but still one of the best tracks I've ever driven in a sim.
http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=B
http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Blue%20Mountain
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?p=3143931

To say something about LFS tracks, I'd say that they look very much like dumbed down versions of what the first versions were to be. Just like when I was making my first GPL track few years ago. Everytime some part of the track felt too hard or slow, I edited it easier. Of course my track never got published, but it was pretty similar what AS3 is in LFS, only a bit longer and much greater elevation changes, very exciting at first but the easy layout makes it quite boring after a while.

Also another thing about LFS tracks is that they are quite unrealistic in some ways, like the chicanes on every tracks. They are just made to be driven over. How many LFS chicanes can you find on Laguna seca, Mosport, Mexico, Bathurst or Blue Mountain Circuit? None. Still every track in LFS has at least one.

I'd take revised tracks instead of completely new tracks.
...

Couldn't disagree more. No more new configs, please, I'm begging Eric to stop with new configs. If tracks need to be updated, then be it so, but I'd like to see a completely new track in LFS.

Of course making a new track is hell of a lot work for a single person to do it all when he has to make every texture, 3d-model andother things alll by himself. And that's why we, I guess, have a lot configs instead of tracks...

[MAGGOT]

Hopefully the new configs were made simply to have more 'tracks' in LFS, sort of a stand-in until we get more unique tracks. It's a quicker way to broaden the selection, which gives us more to try out.

I hope that every track made from now, until the end of development is a new location.

Look at it this way; how many real race tracks (excluding Autocross, of course) have multiple versions? There are several, yes, but most tracks have one layout.

[Hyperactive]

Hopefully the new configs were made simply to have more 'tracks' in LFS, sort of a stand-in until we get more unique tracks. It's a quicker way to broaden the selection, which gives us more to try out.

I hope that every track made from now, until the end of development is a new location.

Look at it this way; how many real race tracks (excluding Autocross, of course) have multiple versions? There are several, yes, but most tracks have one layout.

Also: Look at it this way: How different are the Aston 4, 5 and 6? And many real tracks have more than one configs just like LFS tracks.

NK pro tracks feel better than LFS tracks, but I haven't driven nk enough to really say that they are better indeed.

[zeugnimod]

That puts our total to 14 tracks to use for league use. Combine that with the fact that many of these are also excellent and drive completely different in reverse configuration, you easily could have a total of 28 tracks at your disposal for league racing. Tell me, which league runs 28 races? Is there one? I don't know.

I think, you can also include the rally tracks. And also SO Classic is often used. Then, you didnt even mention FE Club and you said, that AS Cadet is "just good for the little cars", but I dont see, why that disqualifies it from being in a list of tracks suitable for league races. There are not only league races for the faster cars; actually, the best racing can be found in leagues with slower cars IMO. :)

So that adds the rally tracks (6), SO1 (2), FE1 (2) and AS1 (2). So we have even 40 tracks availabe for league racing use. :tilt:

[mrodgers]

I think, you can also include the rally tracks. And also SO Classic is often used. Then, you didnt even mention FE Club and you said, that AS Cadet is "just good for the little cars", but I dont see, why that disqualifies it from being in a list of tracks suitable for league races. There are not only league races for the faster cars; actually, the best racing can be found in leagues with slower cars IMO. :)

So that adds the rally tracks (6), SO1 (2), FE1 (2) and AS1 (2). So we have even 40 tracks availabe for league racing use. :tilt:
Because I said this:
I am basing all that above on the GTR's as that is what I like to drive. But if you could do it for GTR's, then they also easily suit the F08, FOX, baby GTR's, and possible even the LFR class.
Which is why I chose the tracks that I chose. Then I said this:
You might want to knock off a few of the longer stuff if going for the slower road cars. But then you also have other smaller configs to substitute for the long ones.
Which takes care of adding tracks like AS Cadet and SO Classic. I don't think you would want to drive those in the fastest cars. Or, on the other hand, you really wouldn't want to do 5 mile tracks like AS GP or KY GP Long in the slowest cars. Looking by car class, swapping longer and shorter tracks around, you still get around the same number of combos. Because lugging around AS GP in the UF1 or GTi would just be boring. And similarly, running the FZR at AS Cadet would be treacherous.

It's all a matter of opinion on track/car selection of course. I'm sure though, that no one in their right mind would want to be running GTR's, FOX, F08, or BF1 on the rally tracks :D . But then again...... I did try to upload MRT at one of the FE rally tracks for the WR when S2 first came out, hehe. Didn't work though.

[zeugnimod]

Oh, ok. :shy:

But there is actually a league running atm, that does only rally races with FXR with Slickmod. :D

And there is OLFSL, that uses very different combos and isnt sticking to one car.

[Boxster3.4]

being and Ex "first person shooter" Clan player (UrbanTerror on Quake), one of the key things that made that play environment challenging was the depth of choice of Maps that could be played upon... All these where developed by the community and like LFS skins some maps where great and others really bad .. All depending upon the skill of the mapper..

Instead of the developers creating tracks would it be a better investment to create a SDK for track development so that the community can then do tracks ??

Just a thought ?

[spankmeyer]

being and Ex "first person shooter" Clan player (UrbanTerror on Quake), one of the key things that made that play environment challenging was the depth of choice of Maps that could be played upon... All these where developed by the community and like LFS skins some maps where great and others really bad .. All depending upon the skill of the mapper..

Instead of the developers creating tracks would it be a better investment to create a SDK for track development so that the community can then do tracks ??

Just a thought ?

A pretty horrible idea UNLESS the SDK is released only to dev-approved individuals with EULA included not to leak or share the kit with the threat of a five-gunshots-administred-to-the-head punishment.

Keep LFS mod-free - we already have enough sims with grotesk amounts of half-arsed mods you have to download, install, test yourself, hate them, uninstall, trying to find the correct version, dl again, installing, mod mismatch, suicide, reborn again as a ghost and then killing yourself again because you can't find online players for the game you'd love to play.

[Boxster3.4]

That'll be a vote for a no then :scratchch

[axus]

A pretty horrible idea UNLESS the SDK is released only to dev-approved individuals with EULA included not to leak or share the kit with the threat of a five-gunshots-administred-to-the-head punishment.

Keep LFS mod-free - we already have enough sims with grotesk amounts of half-arsed mods you have to download, install, test yourself, hate them, uninstall, trying to find the correct version, dl again, installing, mod mismatch, suicide, reborn again as a ghost and then killing yourself again because you can't find online players for the game you'd love to play.

Aww come on man, some people are very proud of their creations. These look like fun, don't they?:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=341665&d=1136807546
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

:D

[Hyperactive]

Aww come on man, some people are very proud of their creations. These look like fun, don't they?:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=341665&d=1136807546
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

:D

Fun is a very relative term there :p

[Speed Soro]

We don't need modifications on the actual tracks, neither new layouts of them. We need new enviroments, new chalenges, for more completed championships.

Eric does a good work. Maybe with a half dozen of colaborators, he could do more in less time.

I'm one between many here that dont want to see LFS open to modders. Oh no God, everything but not that.

But a little help of a few good colaborators could accelerate this loooooooooong wait...

[Speed Soro]

Aww come on man, some people are very proud of their creations. These look like fun, don't they?:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=341665&d=1136807546
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

:D

Could we send a missile to their house? :scratchch

[ajp71]

Aww come on man, some people are very proud of their creations. These look like fun, don't they?:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=341665&d=1136807546
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280

:D

I don't think that's the best choice of screens to show how bad mods can be because:

1) SCGT was made in the last millennium
2) Is showing how crap rFactor can be when trying to fit a car into the scene
3) Is blatantly a WIP

Having said that I don't believe with its unique online emphasis (I say that because nK doesn't really exist any more, rFactor is a confused mess with too many mods, the N2003 pick up games are all ovals and GPL doesn't really have much pick up racing anymore) that mods would be suitable for LFS.

What LFS needs is more challenging circuits, all the tracks are currently far too wide and flat for real fun. I know some people will now complain that makes them easy to pass on, so fine keep the easy to pass on tracks and add some real challenging ones, Blue Mountain would be the perfect example.

[deggis]

Couldn't disagree more. No more new configs, please, I'm begging Eric to stop with new configs. If tracks need to be updated, then be it so, but I'd like to see a completely new track in LFS.
I didn't mean new configs, meant that Eric should remake parts of the current tracks. Like the chicanes for example and making corners more narrow and stuff like that.

[DaveWS]

I didn't mean new configs, meant that Eric should remake parts of the current tracks. Like the chicanes for example and making corners more narrow and stuff like that.

Agreed :thumb:

[askoff]

I didn't mean new configs, meant that Eric should remake parts of the current tracks. Like the chicanes for example and making corners more narrow and stuff like that.
I prefer new track's than rebuilding old one's. It's much better that there are at least one track per car that suites it well. More track's means more variation of corners and chicanes.

[PaulC2K]

re real chicanes instead of 'LFS chicanes', one of my favorites is the last but 1 'corner/chicane' at Nurburgring (current F1) where the cars come charging down go heavy onto the brakes, but still carry some speed through there (perhaps thats a little too LFS style still) and also Silverstone's Abbey, which is another good chicane IMO. Chicanes dont have to be 40mph Monaco swimming pool section, crawl through at an unbareable pace, but they can be great places to force a pass but with chicanes like FE Gold's last chicane its too fast and the cars 'flung' through it in such a way its not really possible.


Real tracks with multiple layouts:
Hockenheim (3)
Magny-Cours (2)
Silverstone (3)
Indianapolis (2)
Nurburgring (2)
Monza (2)
Brands Hatch (2)
Suzuka (3 i think, whole, then an east and west course, kinda like FE Black with gold & green)

Probably half the F1 circuits have a club version used for national race series and then the full one for international and higher levels of racing, fair enough they dont have 72 versions like Aston has at last count, but its not uncommon for a track to have 2 layouts used frequently, so personally i'd like to see future tracks have at least a 'club' layout as anyone who watched yesterdays WTCC race will have noticed that even for those cars that track made them look like they were go-karts! 2min laps and a track which could have had 4 cars side by side round at times looked very odd to say the least (provided some great racing, and some moves which were textbook LFS Demo server moves ;)). I'd rather see each track be given a National and a Club config, its much more realistic to expect from a track than purely 1 layout or 3+ layouts and allows a full sized track for the BF1/GTR types and a smaller version suited to our road cars, while the others will work in either/both nicely.
Huge track & small car or small track & fast car is just hard to get good (or realistic) racing.


I'd also agree with points about SDK or additional workforce, even after S3 when the guys call an end to things, i'd still be concerned if everyone had the ability ('option') to modify content whether it was new tracks, cars or complete modifications, purely because there would be half a dozen attempts at the same things and more terrible additions than good ones. I dont know how you'd decide who had the right to make new content, but a sizeable price (£25/$50 or whatever) attached to the tools might (fairly or unfairly) mean only people with the ability to utilise those tools would get them rather than every man and his dog d*cking about 'cos they can'.
Might seem harsh pricing equally capable people out, i'd love to try some things however if I was going to spend £25 on something, first i'd make sure it was something i'd at least put some effort into it otherwise i wouldnt bother, i'd just like to see the tools put into the hands of those who'd make a real effort to add quality content rather than people thinking they can make the new Skyline/Nordy etc when the end results is similar to those posted earlier.
Cant see it happening anytime soon, but it'd be nice if there were a group of people in the community able to work together to come up with something and get it 90% of the way so only minor touches were required to finalise it.

[robt]

Chicanes dont have to be 40mph Monaco swimming pool section, crawl through at an unbareable pace Wow, thats one slow car your racing at monaco there.

[PaulC2K]

well the harbour area is such a lovely view, it'd be a shame to spoil the days outing by wizzing past and not taking in the scenary!

[robt]

True true, i can see it now, all the F1 drivers parking up mid race having a nice refreshing drink watching the boats, then off again. (sorry for the O/T, im in one of those moods)

[Julppu]

Just a thing that pop into my mind after reading some post in this (and several similar) thread...

Could it be, that it's quite hard to make a superb track when the physics aren't "done" yet? Some Finn said earlier in this thread, that Aston's eau rougie feels weird. It's just that we or eric can't actually know how it will feel after next physics update.

I would presume that building a track takes a lot of test driving. Same goes with new cars. No point in pushing more tracks and cars into public when next physics update could change the balance (or idea behind track and car) and therefore produce much more tweaking for the modeller. Easier to keep tracks and cars "half-done" and finish them little by little.

[Michael Denham]

Definitely a good point. In real life I would imagine that by the time cars are able to test the track properly at racing speeds the layout is pretty much decided (maybe save a few details). But then I guess the track designers are usually quite experienced and have quite a background in the area and a few consultants etc. That is not the case for Eric I suppose, but I'd guess driving the tracks with current physics would be fine because I'd imagine future changes won't be so big as to make a big difference to how tracks drive (*in most cases at least*).

[Hyperactive]

There are still some thing with the physics that don't feel quite right, although it is quite close imho. But the content has some issues at., like the TBO/GTR class balances or clutch packs. One thing about the tracks is that they are very similar in some aspects. You always have to brake in straight line, only few corners are different and even fewer are hard to get right. The other thing is that on LFS tracks it is always a corner or a straight, never anything like Mosport, where the whole track is one big turn. The FE is a perfect example of this. Turn, straight, turn, straight... And that makes the LFS a lot less challenging, because putting your car into right position before entering a corner is a lot easier when you have to do it at the end of a straight and not in a long corner.

In short, LFS tracks lack balls, they are all like the current Imola without the Acque minerali section (http://www.formula1.sm/autodrome.htm). I want sections where I have to brake in steep downhill while the track goes slightly left tightening into a slow chicane, followed by steep uphill-flatout corner, then a bumpy off-camber 4th gear turn followed by short straight and a blind hairpin. I really suggest that you take a drive in some other sim and download few high rated circuits and compare them to LFS ones. I bet you can ignore the physics issues for a while because some of the tracks are really great. I'd suggest GPL ;)

BTW. now that we are talking about tracks, why don't you try the old S1 Blackwood and then drive the S2 Blackwood. Graphics wise the S2 version is far better but I like the S1 version better because the corners are more steeper and it has more character. It is like the difference between the new and old Imola.

[student]

Wow, there is somebody else besided me who likes the old blackwood more than the new.

[Julppu]

Now I'm getting what Hyper's saying. I agree in those things about the "spirit" of the tracks. I still keep my view concerning the honing of trackdetails.

Steep hills with turns are what I miss. Few weeks ago I was longboarding in Ahvenisto track and fell in love with the profile. Very steep up and downhills with nice, tight corners.

http://tak.tky.hut.fi/Motorsport/Ahvenisto/ahvenist.htm
(In Finnish, sorry. Pictures and vid are in English ;) )

[Hyperactive]

Now I'm getting what Hyper's saying. I agree in those things about the "spirit" of the tracks. I still keep my view concerning the honing of trackdetails.

Steep hills with turns are what I miss. Few weeks ago I was longboarding in Ahvenisto track and fell in love with the profile. Very steep up and downhills with nice, tight corners.

http://tak.tky.hut.fi/Motorsport/Ahvenisto/ahvenist.htm
(In Finnish, sorry. Pictures and vid are in English ;) )

One of my dreams would be to drive the XRR around Ahvenisto :D