Spinoff : ATI graphics - frame rates / black screens

[[RCG]Boosted]

i dont know, but anyhow i think i lost alot fps when upgrading from U10 to U20 i was always stable on around 50 fps now i go down sometimes to 22 :shrug:
not really sure if the patch caused that but my specs are the same with the same background apps and stuff.

[Psymonhilly]

installed this newer patch and although it fixed my laggy starts, i'm getting very low fps in race now:( anyone else getting the same?:scratchch

[bLaCk VaMpIrE]

in the german forum there are were a few people having low fps, they all had ati cards i think.

[Psymonhilly]

in the german forum there are were a few people having low fps, they all had ati cards i think.

well i never use ATI cards coz they suck bigtime:really: G-Force Rawks (mines a 6600 gt) and i didnt used to get low fps, usually get 100-110 fps but now i get 40-60 :(

[germanpio]

I have an ATi 9550 and i have the same problem (less fps then before test patch)

[filur]

Radeon 9550SE, no change in fps.

[Yisc[NL]]

in the german forum there are were a few people having low fps, they all had ati cards i think.

I know this is not the correct place to go into this, but maybe this problem is related to the new 6.8 catalist driver, which is released yesterday. I'm not using any test-patches but have the new driver installed now. I'll give LFS a try and report back to this forum soon.

While running a heavy background job, I noticed that FPS has gone down with about 50 or 60, from around 120 to around 75. Maybe the background job (I'm encoding a film to divx at the moment) makes LFS running slower then normaly, I don't believe so much FPS is taken by this proces. So it's likely that the new catalist (6.8) is causing this. I'll try it later today or tomorrow again, to see if this background job has anything to do with it.

[St4Lk3R]

Hi all you Radeon Low-FPS guys,

try Omega Drivers (http://omegadrivers.net) instead. Since I use them, I can get lotsa more fps from my R9800+P4 1.4+1GB RAM system.

But be careful: before you install Omega Drivers, uninstall the old original drivers completely. Best is to use a Tool like DriverCleaner for this.

[[RCG]Boosted]

Hi all you Radeon Low-FPS guys,

try Omega Drivers (http://omegadrivers.net) instead. Since I use them, I can get lotsa more fps from my R9800+P4 1.4+1GB RAM system.

But be careful: before you install Omega Drivers, uninstall the old original drivers completely. Best is to use a Tool like DriverCleaner for this.
i got these a while ago (even before i patched to U20) and my problem is there.
framerate drop - 50%

[axus]

Boosted;197571']i got these a while ago (even before i patched to U20) and my problem is there.
framerate drop - 50%

If you roll back to U19, does the problem disappear? :shrug: Seems like there are a lot of people with it though, so maybe it is indeed a bug.

[_-ALUCARD-_]

i have an ATI card too (x800xtpe agp) with 6.6 drivers and installed u20 patch and i didn't noticed any low fps than before, so the prob for ati card is maybe the last 6.8 drivers

[franky500]

for those with Low FPS it probably is something to do with the ATI Drivers. I use Nvidia and there is no change in FPS. culd be wrong.. but it looks common to ATI

[dawesdust_12]

It seems to be that way also, I have 2 Comparable computers with comparable Graphics cards, and the Nvidia one stays 60 FPS solid, whereas the ATi one using the same settings, replays, and the ATi one the FPS jumps very drastically, from 30, up to 70.

[Tweaker]

for those with Low FPS it probably is something to do with the ATI Drivers. I use Nvidia and there is no change in FPS. culd be wrong.. but it looks common to ATI
Yeah I have had some really bad FPS issues since the U patches. I am not sure what it is, and have tried experimenting with different drivers, but nothing helps.

It seems I am affected most now when there is multiple cars and too much scenery. I have very minimal graphics settings and I still get some slow performance. A new issue I have noticed with U11 and above I think it was... is that my video will skip and studder sometimes. It says I'd be getting around 40 or even 60 frames per second, but I get these kind of jolts or skips. It is easily seen if you look at trees or passing objects on the sides of my screen, and they kind of 'freeze' in view for a very quick moment, and then zip past. Something performance wise is different about my LFS, I really can't make anything better... I used to be able to run with nice graphics settings, but now I can only make a few average 10 fps added on if I turn everything down. Yet I still get some studdering. :shrug:

Other than this Scawen, the patches are great, and I am loving what has been done so far. Sorry about any requests, but us fans see you in full-patching-force, it just gets tempting :D

[[RCG]Boosted]

If you roll back to U19, does the problem disappear? :shrug: Seems like there are a lot of people with it though, so maybe it is indeed a bug.
with U10 its alright like all time dunno bout U19 since i directly got up to 20.
i remember on U10 autocross (copsnrobbers layout ^^) without any cars on it 50 fps stable wherever i drove...but as soon as i looked back (R) frame rate dropped to 15-20.
that problem is gone with U20...wierd.

[PLAYLIFE]

Boosted;198000']with U10 its alright like all time dunno bout U19 since i directly got up to 20.
i remember on U10 autocross (copsnrobbers layout ^^) without any cars on it 50 fps stable wherever i drove...but as soon as i looked back (R) frame rate dropped to 15-20.
that problem is gone with U20...wierd.

I was driving on cops and robbers server yesterday with U20. When I drove backward while looking back, the framerate dropped noticeably. That's a bit strange, because when ur driving forward, you not only see the forward view, but also the mirror. However, backwards driving does not have a mirror, but is still slower frame rate wise. :shrug:

(using ATI 9600 PRO with drivers from December 2005)

[avih]

I second the FPS issue. I used to get 40-70 FPS and now (somewhere during the U patches) I get as low as 10 on the grid (definately used to be higher) and 20-30 at best during a race. I definately didn't change the graphics settings, and even more, I reduce everything to the minimum CPU/GPU load, and it's still very low.

I have Athlon-XP 2500+, Asus A7N8X-X, 1G RAM DDR 400, BFG Asylum (FX5600 Ultra 128M), on XP Pro SP1.

I always keep my PC clean without viruses/trojans/etc (and cpu and network activity on idle is practically zero)

Something strange: when I turn OFF hardware vertex shading, i'm actually getting higher FPS... :/

[Fox 2]

I got some "blackscreens" pretty often. Seems like LFS is fully working, but I just cannot see anything. Usually this happens when I switch fullscreen\window mode.
Patch is U20, ATI x1600 videocard, 6.7 Catalyst with CCC installed.

[dawesdust_12]

I get them also in windows Vista, but I assume that is due to incomplete implementations in DX10.

[traxxion]

I got some "blackscreens" pretty often. Seems like LFS is fully working, but I just cannot see anything. Usually this happens when I switch fullscreen\window mode.
Patch is U20, ATI x1600 videocard, 6.7 Catalyst with CCC installed.
I still get that too, on my dad's pc. Patch U20, ATI 9600 gfx and Catalyst 6.7

Edit: I also still get a LOT of bluescreens (say a couple every day) when I play on my dad's pc. I just can't figure out when it happens. Sometimes I play for hours and hours and nothing happens and another time I can't play 5 minutes without getting a bluescreen or LFS crash. I know my dad's pc is kinda dodgy (Packard Hell) but these crashes only occure in LFS (other games or normal pc usage it's fine).

[Yisc[NL]]

I got some "blackscreens" pretty often. Seems like LFS is fully working, but I just cannot see anything. Usually this happens when I switch fullscreen\window mode.
Patch is U20, ATI x1600 videocard, 6.7 Catalyst with CCC installed.

Scawen please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have read here, this is a known bug in LFS at the moment. Only happens when you switch between fullscreen and window mode.

[traxxion]

KNOWN ISSUES :

NONE

From the first post :shrug:

[gucio_85]

I got some "blackscreens" pretty often. Seems like LFS is fully working, but I just cannot see anything. Usually this happens when I switch fullscreen\window mode.
Patch is U20, ATI x1600 videocard, 6.7 Catalyst with CCC installed.

Same thing, but on ATI 9600pro and Omega 2.6.53 drivers, only turning off the game helps :schwitz:. It's not happening just in U20.....

[Scawen]

;198586']Scawen please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I have read here, this is a known bug in LFS at the moment. Only happens when you switch between fullscreen and window mode.It was known in one of the earlier test patches and I was able to reproduce it, if LFS started up in full screen mode, then after going to window, it would not go back to full screen mode correctly. But if LFS started up in a window, then it could go full screen and windowed as many times as you like.

But a reason for this was found and it was fixed. I can't reproduce it now, and I don't remember hearing from many people that this was a problem. I guess it's quite rare and probably depends on which drivers you have?

Or do you know a special sequence of events that can reproduce this every time? I think this would be better discussed in the bug reports forum. If you want to start a thread over there and post a link here, that would be helpful. Thanks.

[DanneDA]

If you told me that all U20 servers were laggy compared with previous versions then I'd look at it as an LFS problem. But you've only told me that one server is laggy. So it's nearly 100% certain that there is a problem with that server, and very unlikely to be a new LFS problem, specially seeing as the network code hasn't changed in any way.

Okay so probably a problem with their server. I wonder what would cause it.

I've checked their site and noticed this in perticular:

Summary for Banshee:

So with the servers, does not clap yet now has sometimes different patches in run - events patch U - Racing 1 patch U19 and always the same " time out " Hmm, and I do not know what I should still do, time slowly becomes the Hawky comes again


Found in this thread (in german): http://d-r-t.net/sys/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?725.last


It was known in one of the earlier test patches and I was able to reproduce it, if LFS started up in full screen mode, then after going to window, it would not go back to full screen mode correctly. But if LFS started up in a window, then it could go full screen and windowed as many times as you like.

But a reason for this was found and it was fixed. I can't reproduce it now, and I don't remember hearing from many people that this was a problem. I guess it's quite rare and probably depends on which drivers you have?

Or do you know a special sequence of events that can reproduce this every time? I think this would be better discussed in the bug reports forum. If you want to start a thread over there and post a link here, that would be helpful. Thanks.

This happend to me on U19, haven't played enough of U20 to see if I could reproduce it. Basicly window/fullscreen/windowing several times while doing stuff in the background (like browsing).


And 1 more thing, last night after I finished a race and went to windowed mode to browse the web to wait for the race to restart. While I was getting ready to enter the game again the LFS window turned black, I still had sound and all controls left, tried to go to full screen, problem still there. Went back to windowed mode and still black screen. I had to exit the game by pressing the Window exit button.
I do not know if this is related to anything in LFS or the test patches (U19 in this case), could as well be a problem with my computer, or simply another bug in Windows, just wanted to let you know that there could be some kind of problem when going from window to full screen while doing. other things with the computer.


Will do some testing to see if I can reproduce it.

I haven't seen anything on my laptop while doing similar things. Only happend on my desktop which is overclocked. Both computers are Intel CPU:s with Intel chipsets with nVidia graphics cards (6800 GS AGP and Go 7300).

[Tweaker]

Hi all you Radeon Low-FPS guys,

try Omega Drivers (http://omegadrivers.net) instead. Since I use them, I can get lotsa more fps from my R9800+P4 1.4+1GB RAM system.

But be careful: before you install Omega Drivers, uninstall the old original drivers completely. Best is to use a Tool like DriverCleaner for this.

Yeah I get Omega Drivers quite often, but it doesn't help. Right now I am on drivers from my manufacturer and they give me the best performance so far. The latest Catalyst by ATI or modded Catalyst drivers by Omega and others.... those have just given me really poor performance in LFS lately. And they cause that blackscreen issue a whole lot. Right now with these drivers dating back to early 2005, I don't get blackscreens, but a tad bit better FPS.

Scawen, I notice the most FPS drops when seeing things like fences, trees, and smoke or dust. Forget what those textures are called, heheh.

[alland44]

I have some troubles with the latest patches. If I choose a new track from garage, it takes much longer to load it now. Everything in the garage goes slower.

Sometimes when I join a server, things are "like lagging" every 1.5 seconds. This can happen when I hotlap too, I do not drive singleplayer to much, so I have not chekked that part out.

This was definately not there before i upgraded to patch 18 (From u12)

At least one danish driver has got the same problems, with the "lagging" - Not really lag, I do not know the english word for it. Stop a split second, then ok for 1,5 sec. Stop a splitsecond, then ok for 1,5 ........

Sometimes it go away after 5 - 10 minutes, or when you restart Lfs. But I never ever had this problem untill now.

P4 3.0 Ghz (2mb level 2 cache)
1.5 Gb pc 4200 ram
Nvidia 6600 Gt Gfx.

Drivers are the newest.


EDIT :

Internet connection : 4096/768

[Tweaker]

That's exactly what I feel alland44!! And you described it just fine :)

[SamH]

I had exactly this the other day, but it turned out to be a different application running in the systray (a CoolerMaster program, written in .NET, very badly). The 1.5 seconds and blip is exactly what I experienced.

Just for grins, try and kill as many systray and sundry processes. It's worth eliminating any other potential causes like this.

[Tweaker]

I had exactly this the other day, but it turned out to be a different application running in the systray (a CoolerMaster program, written in .NET, very badly). The 1.5 seconds and blip is exactly what I experienced.

Just for grins, try and kill as many systray and sundry processes. It's worth eliminating any other potential causes like this.
Yeah every process I close could help (as in previous versions of LFS, just having Winamp open would give me some blips), but with everything closed I still get some tiny pauses. I don't know, something is affecting LFS, or LFS is doing something differently. But this PLUS my low framerate, video performance of U patches have not been good at all for me, to say the least.

[PLAYLIFE]

I have some troubles with the latest patches. If I choose a new track from garage, it takes much longer to load it now. Everything in the garage goes slower.

Sometimes when I join a server, things are "like lagging" every 1.5 seconds. This can happen when I hotlap too, I do not drive singleplayer to much, so I have not chekked that part out.

This was definately not there before i upgraded to patch 18 (From u12)

At least one danish driver has got the same problems, with the "lagging" - Not really lag, I do not know the english word for it. Stop a split second, then ok for 1,5 sec. Stop a splitsecond, then ok for 1,5 ........

Sometimes it go away after 5 - 10 minutes, or when you restart Lfs. But I never ever had this problem untill now.

P4 3.0 Ghz (2mb level 2 cache)
1.5 Gb pc 4200 ram
Nvidia 6600 Gt Gfx.

Drivers are the newest.


EDIT :

Internet connection : 4096/768

Yes, I have the same since patch U. Every 5 seconds or so there is a 0.2-0.3 sec stop of the screen. If it happens on the straight it's not a problem, but when ur racing through BL chicane with another driver, it can make trouble or when correcting a slide. Haven't changed video card or drivers during the time that the patches have changed.

[BurnOut69]

Scawen, if you more info to know whats going on I'd be more than happy to help. Maybe we could be provided with some kind of form to know exactly what info do you need - system specs, GPU, whatever.

[Tweaker]

Just another update on my low FPS issue... and maybe this might help.

My general FPS is lower than it used to be on previous versions. Normally I would get 70-90 FPS when driving by myself in SP or MP. Now in SP or MP and going solo, I get around 50-60 FPS. With only a few cars around, my FPS drops by a lot, like to around 25-30 for small grid racing online.

But then there are more cars around it is just 12 fps or lower. Really undriveable and I've got LOD turned down, no shadows, simple wheels, etc etc... basically my LFS looks like crap and I still get low FPS. :(

The other wierd thing happening now is that turning on/off mirrors doesn't help my FPS at all. Even mirror LOD wouldn't change anything. Yet when I use my look behind button combo (or look left+right), my FPS turns down to 4-8 fps. I cannot even use this feature anymore it is so laggy. Even if there are no cars around me, looking ahead is fine, but looking behind will just reduce FPS by huge amounts. If there is about 4 or 5 cars in front of me, and FPS is average around 30, looking behind with 1 or no other cars present, FPS is terrible.

I dunno if there is any sort of LOD optimization done in the recent patches or generally different draw methods... this is just the worst I've ever played LFS on my system.

[kamo2000]

Well i'm on ati x700 pro and cat 5.8 and it's same as usual..no fps drops...strange thingy going on here :/ i feel sorry for u guys...i hope it won't happen to me.
As for lfs settings..all maxed out with aa and aff...around 70-80 alone 40-50 during race and teh minimum i saw was about 22-25 with all cars on T1...my pc is gettin old...ok enough from me now.

[Dygear]

I've had the black screen error from time to time.
I only happens when I change screen rezies alot tho.

[Takumi_Project.d]

Yes, I have the same since patch U. Every 5 seconds or so there is a 0.2-0.3 sec stop of the screen. If it happens on the straight it's not a problem, but when ur racing through BL chicane with another driver, it can make trouble or when correcting a slide. Haven't changed video card or drivers during the time that the patches have changed.

I was having this same issue on my computer too, and also when i closed LFS the sound on my pc always stuttered if i played an mp3 and used a cpu intensive program at the same time. after reboot was fine, just happened after playing lfs :)

anyway, both issues were fixed with a clean install of windows, so it could be an unrelated issue. i have a nvidia 6600gt

[VoiD]

No glitches on my side. XPsp2/Sapphire x800pro

I´m using allways the newest Cat (of course without CCC) and I´m on AitTrayTools for the gimmicks. OC´d (CPU/FSB+GPU/RAM) since the first days...

[Scawen]

About frame rates...

Has anyone established if it was the drivers, or a test patch?

I've heard a lot of "When I upgraded to U20 from U10 I lost frame rate" sort of posts. But I haven't heard anything to test this, like "If I reinstall the U10 exe then my frame rate is higher again".

My point is, I can't tell from what I'm reading here, if you just did a driver upgrade to a dodgy driver version, at the same time as you got a new test patch. If I am to suspect the patch in some way, we will need to have some verifiable and repeatable test results, like "with U13 at the start of Blackwood, when paused, my frame rate is 70, but with U14 in exactly the same conditions, my frame rate is 30".

That sentence was pure fiction by the way, no reason to suspect U14... :D

[Tweaker]

I really cannot be certain if it was a patch or drivers. But I do know that I haven't changed graphics drivers for a long time, and the official patches T & U ran pretty well as usual. I don't know where it started, but it might have been with a very early test patch, because in mid May, I had a OLFSL league race and it was very hard to drive in that from low frames. South City would usually drop my framerate only slightly, but this was plenty of frame loss... enough to lag my entire system and have unresponsive steering. I'm not sure when you started the test patches, but I'd say it was around May or June when I've had some bad fps experiences.

Since then I have tried different drivers dating all the way back from 2.4.96, all the way up to the recent 3.8.273 Catalyst version. I remember you reported that a few specific Catalyst versions had issues with LFS (something .x.11 and .12). When that was heard, I was using drivers that were only a few versions older, and they have worked great and given me the best performance ever in LFS. Any newer drivers... and I seem to get good performance in some areas, but with things like smoke and quite a few cars present, it just cannot sustain a decent FPS level.

I've had a fresh install of LFS S2U since July if I remember correctly, and drivers haven't helped the issue even then. I updated right away to a high U test patch (U15 I think? :shrug: ), and then progressed up until U20 currently. I suppose I could try each version and see my results, but I need two things: 1) As many U-test-patches as possible to download, because I deleted all of the downloaded ones, & 2) lots of time :p So I hope this is easy to figure out....

[CSU1]

Going slightly off topic about Windoze XP services and performance.
Do the services that are enabled on a standard box use much cpu/mem time?

[Tweaker]

Going slightly off topic about Windoze XP services and performance.
Do the services that are enabled on a standard box use much cpu/mem time?
No not really. Unless you are increasingly anal, you can shut down a few needless services, but not many. Really won't make a difference in performance though...

[CSU1]

No not really. Unless you are increasingly anal, you can shut down a few needless services, but not many. Really won't make a difference in performance though...

Ok , atm i have a bare xp system running(at home at work now), I spent some time a while ago turning off svcs., resarting my pc , then checking if I needed them.Only a half dozen turned on that you need.In the Task Manager running processes = 19 when idle.When I go home laters I will reset everything back as if I just started up a bog standard new system then report on the performance difference.
I can't imagine as you said we won't see a significant difference but for those of us suffering from low FPS and dont know about msconfig to turn off anything we don't use, it should be a help.:shrug:

[Scawen]

I suppose I could try each version and see my results, but I need two things: 1) As many U-test-patches as possible to download, because I deleted all of the downloaded ones, & 2) lots of time :p So I hope this is easy to figure out....Well I may be able to save you a bit of time. Here is the U exe (note it is called LFS_U.exe so make sure you run the right one).

The point is, if this has no better frame rate than U20, then you immediately know that the test patches have not reduced your frame rate, and it must be a driver issue, and no more testing required. :)

[dawesdust_12]

Not ATi card - nVidia 6600GT, but LFS_U.exe gave me an extra 5-10 FPS average gain. Sure the ATi People have been the ones reporting this, but it does happen in the nVidia cards, just less of an effect/no noticible effect.

U20 - most commonly seen in the 50.0 range
U - Most commonly seen in the 59-63 FPS range.

[Scawen]

It's meaningless without a full description of the exact game state you used to get the results.

E.g. paused, at Blackwood start grid, with 5 AIs in view, taken from in-car view in 6th position with mirrors on, in mode 1024x768x32 without antialisasing.

(I'm not saying you have to use that setup, I'm just saying, we need a full description of that type - that you used in U AND U20).

[dawesdust_12]

Both I used GTI on BL, (due to U being locked), did 1 full lap of BL, using mouse, in-car, Mirrors on, 1024x768x32, No AA or AF. Patch U had a much higher average FPS compared to U20, like I outlined above.

[Scawen]

Well it's still too vague and subjective. That cannot really be called test results, because you have not said anything that is exactly reproducable.

An example of exactly reproducable, is entering the game and immediately pressing P to pause it, after one second, before the car moves, so you can do exactly the same in another version, even on another day.

BUT, I'll take your word for it, assuming that the difference on your computer is so great and unmistakeable that you don't even need to do any rigorous and reproducable testing to see the frame rate loss. And so I've put all the execuatables from U8 to U20 in a special download so you can try them out and see exactly which test patch resulted in that very noticeable frame rate loss.

www.liveforspeed.co.uk/LFS_TEST_U_U8_TO_U20.zip

[[RCG]Boosted]

i just tried the U patch kyoto oval, full Ai grid, last position, paused - 59 fps.
U20 - 58 fps :scratchch
so...cant believe it though but anyhow its just 1 fps loss now :tilt:
unpaused i lose 2 fps. its a bit wierd, i think when the movement starts the real fps drop comes.

[QuickSilver]

i upgraded to a ATi 9600XT 256mb around october last year and since ive had it when im in a server around 3 or more cars i get really low FPS. and this never happened on my old Nvidia geforce2mx 128mb anyone know what it could be? ive tryed updating the drivers and it didnt help at all

[wheel4hummer]

I get better FPS. Maybe its my new PSU.

[Renku]

Tested a bit with a replay I made.

Replay: BL1; GTT; 8 AI's + me; 1 lap race
VGA: Radeon 9600XT, Catalyst 6.5 + ATI Tray Tools

If changing just an lfs.exe doesn't change LFS graphics settings, then I believe the results should be comparable (I tried to keep the method of testing 99.99% similar).

Frames: 3769 - Time: 109148ms - Avg: 34.531 - Min: 22 - Max: 54 _ U; 1st time
Frames: 3791 - Time: 109192ms - Avg: 34.719 - Min: 23 - Max: 54 _ U; 2nd time

Frames: 3778 - Time: 109289ms - Avg: 34.569 - Min: 23 - Max: 53 _ U19 1st time
Frames: 3801 - Time: 109159ms - Avg: 34.821 - Min: 23 - Max: 55 _ U19 2nd time

Frames: 3765 - Time: 109231ms - Avg: 34.468 - Min: 23 - Max: 54 _ U20 1st time
Frames: 3801 - Time: 109404ms - Avg: 34.743 - Min: 23 - Max: 52 _ U20 2nd time

*1st time = the replay ran for the 1st time after entering LFS
*2nd time = the replay run for the 2nd consecutive time

I used U19 until today, and I never had any performance issues with it, not a single one.
If anything specific needs to be tested, I think I can do that.

[Tweaker]

Do you think we can get people testing it that actually HAVE the problem, rather than ones that are pointless for test results? :really: And not the usual: "everything works fine over here" ...... :doh:

[filur]

rather than ones that are pointless for test results?

How can any test result be pointless?

U vs U20. Paused, back of the grid, cockpit, 17 BF1's @ AS6, identical gfx setup, identical fps. ATI drivers 6.14.

[KENWOOD]

Intel P4 2.8GHZ,ASUS P800-E deluxe motherboard,ATI 9600 256MB graphics card,Windows Sp2.....70 fps,but in internet 2mins go to 20 fps....wtf.....1024x768 min graphics...in full 20fps....wtf???:shrug: :pillepall Patch p05 75 fps max graphics lol.....

[Tweaker]

Radeon 9550SE, no change in fps.
You are the few in this thread that have not had any problems with the patches. Wouldn't it be better if the people that are actually having trouble (in this thread) to post their test results? Sure, posting results showing that you don't have any problems with the patches at all only ruins the possibility that it is indeed a patch issue. Users have already explained that they have used a base driver for a long time, and when updating to test patches they get poor performance. Changing graphics drivers hasn't helped me or a few others.

:shrug:

I am still testing, and will have my results as soon as I have the time.

[CSU1]

:sadbanana always 40 fps I couldn't give a schmit

[Electrik Kar]

I notice the most FPS drops when seeing things like fences, trees, and smoke or dust.

Tweaker, I suggest that if you have adaptive anti-aliasing enabled in the CCC, then that's your problem. Your gfx card is smoothing out the edges of your transparent textures (alpha textures) which is creating lots more work hence lower framerates when viewing trees, etc. Turn it off and frame rate should return to normal. If it's off already then... sorry, can't help :D

[dawesdust_12]

Also Scawen (Dunno if this is related) I also get the black screen bug still. It is most likely the incomplete Vista drivers because in XP it works 100%

Note: These tests are being run in XP, but Vista yields the same results

Testing now to see which EXE brought the FPS hit.

[dawesdust_12]

Ok, I did some testing, Paused at S/F line, GTi, Blackwood, I am the only car, Real Mirrors on.


U = 59.9FPS and 60 FPS
U8 = 60 FPS, but not as solid as U (Seeing more down into the 59.0 and 58's)
U9 thru U18 = Same as above
U19 &U20 = 60 FPS, but jumped down to 50 FPS every 10 seconds or so (on average)


Scawen, I don't know if theres anything more that I can do to help, but I'm willing to.

EDIT: Also Scawen, for some reason, but switching in and out of U and Uxx, I somehow am now a demo racer, and I have no unlocks. Would you mind fixing that please? Thanks in Advance :)

[Scawen]

EDIT: Also Scawen, for some reason, but switching in and out of U and Uxx, I somehow am now a demo racer, and I have no unlocks. Would you mind fixing that please? Thanks in Advance :)That's done.

[NotAnIllusion]

Hi Scawen, I've run a 2-lap MPR benchmark on LFS U20 and U (from your LFS_U.zip). Identical LFS configuration settings. Benchmarked with Fraps v2.7.2.

Procedure of testing for both LFS versions:
Opened MPR
Started benchmarking when the second reds on the virtual start lights came on
Used TV view with FPS, minimap, names on cars and position list
Ran for exactly 2 laps (as close as I could get)
Stopped benchmarking

LFS_U
Frames: 15309 - Time: 143398ms - Avg: 106.759 - Min: 49 - Max: 203

LFS
Frames: 15022 - Time: 143403ms - Avg: 104.754 - Min: 46 - Max: 203

Wouldn't it be handy if LFS had an integrated "timedemo" type benchmarker.. :scratchch

*edit: I ran both again and they turned up the same averages.

[SpaceMarineITA]

here i have a x800gto2 16 pipeline with omega catalyst 6.7 ed no fps drop has been seen. :shrug:

[S14 DRIFT]

i have x800xl (16 pipeline too - Not overclocked or anything)

Frame rate rock steady :P

But, if your the kinda person who worrys about fram rates on LFS, you REALLY NEED to get a new card.!

[Tweaker]

I am not at my computer right now to do more and more testing, but last night I realized what might be slowing me down. Not sure, but this gives similar results....

First, the Z-Buffer set at anything other than 32 results in some laggy performance. I DO remember that I used to run it at 16, and the game ran just fine and there was really no visual or performance difference to that of 24 or 32. Recently I have been using 32, which worked fine. I am not really sure what it helps with, but it seems with the same drivers I used to use when using the buffer setting at 16, it gives some poor performance. Basically it makes things studder and everything doesn't look or sound smooth at all. On top of this, the Minimum Sleep setting has always been set at 1ms for me. If I were to set it at 20ms or anything above 1ms, I get the same studdering symptoms and it basically is one way to recreate it. However the biggest factor of all this is the difference between Singleplayer and Multiplayer. With LFS set for the smoothest possible settings, I can play with a full grid of AI using some hi quality skins (something around 30-40 texture memory usage) at a reasonable 20 fps. The lowest averages are like 15, and when leading cars and seing them in the mirror, it is around ~25. That is in Singleplayer.

But if I join a Multiplayer game with the same settings, it seems my FPS drops a huge amount. I am not on any unstable connection or having problems with my network, it works beautifully. When things like the skin download activate, or a clump of cars are in front of me when starting at the back of the grid, the game just wants to studder and every so often pause very quickly at wierd rates. Multiplayer is where I seem to get worse performance now. The start grid bug you fixed where cars looked stalled, that almost felt related to me, because there seemed to be very low FPS when nobody was moving. Once the lights dropped, and everyone starting moving, it kind of fluctuated. Cars looked like they were sliding off their correct directional paths (like sideways), and it just feels like a netcode problem to me. Some may say that network lag doesn't lag your video, but I really believe it does in LFS.

If I join a German server that pings around 200+, FPS performance can be very poor alongside the poor connections between me and other players --- so there is some skippy cars on the track, along with studdering video lag when I see this. It just develops into one big mess of performance issues... like it is all combined into one and 'overloaded'. If I join a North American server or something below 150ms, FPS is usually ok, but there are some players that join who are from Australia or Europe and have noticeable lag. It just drops the performance, as if the game is requiring too much resources to make it as smooth as possible.

Strange theory of mine but, when I've tried other clean installs of new video drivers, there is only about a 3-5 fps difference, but they all lag to some bad extremes. Especially when in Multiplayer when in front of a full pack of cars coming into BL's Turn 1 and using the "look behind" view... my FPS is to a crawl. In Singleplayer I only notice it a tiny bit (naturally, because it is showing more objects), but in Multiplayer on a server, something is affecting all of this. So I don't think it is entirely specific with the test patches, because I have experienced this only shortly after the patch with the BMW. The netgraph/lag-bars in the lower left don't seem to be true also. Like when downloading a skin, they stay low and steady, even though I can notice visual lag and player lag. The skin download used to cause minor 'blips' when active, but now it seems to create more than just tiny clicks... it is big pauses --- as if it is really eating away at my computer momentarily.

Playing in Singleplayer, or viewing a SPR seems irrelevant to me, because the results for that are normal I suppose. But playing in Multiplayer is troublesome for me nowadays. Viewing an MPR is no different to an SPR, it is the live/online playing that makes things feel worse.

[filur]

Some may say that network lag doesn't lag your video, but I really believe it does in LFS.

If you join a multiplayer game and somehow stop your internet connection from working, do you notice any fps change?

I've lagged out many times, from servers crashing to my ISP dropping my connection, and i've never noticed a frame missing while basically having infinite lag.

[Tweaker]

It isn't the lag where your connection drops completely or times out briefly, it is as if I cannot recieve enough information for every driver, and then everything is 'simplified'... however, it always makes it feel like I am recieving way too much data and it is overloading my system. Hell if I know what it is exactly.... but I know for sure that the download skin feature lags me at least. And it never used to drop my frames as much as before. If you don't have any framerate issues or feel like your harddrive is chunking up when downloading a skin, I dunno, maybe it is some hardware issues.

[filur]

I get a twitch when new skins are applied to cars, not during the actual download.

[Tweaker]

I get a twitch when new skins are applied to cars, not during the actual download.
Hmmm yeah the twitch is normal. But when that "Downloading...." message appears, I notice performance dropping then. :shrug:

[KENWOOD]

ATI 9600 (256mb) P4 2.8GHZ,512 DDR.....50fps on 1024 med graphics....and sometimes (10-20s in a minute goes to 10-15fps) wtf?:shrug:

[bLaCk VaMpIrE]

but did you proof you dont have any antivirus-programms on, or to many tasks running?
you should search on your machine the fault first, before posting. maybe it is caused by lfs, but you cant really say.

[KENWOOD]

tasks:Steam,Audigy,Network,Ati control,Bluetooth..... :)

[Woyta]

I have R9800PRO (non OC), Catalyst 6.1 and U20. I have somethink about 100fps but sometimes fps drops to 15-20ps for few second.

//Athlon XP-M @ 166*15 (2,5ghz) , 2* 512MB Kingmax DDR 433 CL2,5 Dual chanel, Asus A7V880, Sata Hitachi T7K250, Audigy 1 OEM - KX Drivers,....

[nast21790]

I have an ATi All-In-Wonder 2006 Edition (Based on the ATi X1300. Also, non-OCed.), Catalyst 6.6, and U20. Graphics all maxed out ingame, no AA, no AF. In fullscreen i get ~60FPS (with jumps to 80-90FPS in singleplayer with no AI), which can drop to about 30 with a full grid of cars in front of me.

However, my problem is that in windowed mode, I only get 6FPS or so, constant. This can be really annoying when I'm talking to friends while testing a set, etc., and I use windowed to be able to easily switch from LFS to AIM/MSN. (And just to answer the question that is sure to come up at some point, it is not the IM programs that lag it. I can run them + WMP + Photoshop at the same time as LFS, and it runs fine in fullscreen. It's just windowed that is acting strange.)

Besides AIM/MSN, the only tasks I have running are AVG, ATi control center, and windowsblinds, plus essential windows system programs. On an interesting note, I had this same problem in Q, but unloading windowsblinds fixed it. However, in U20, this fix doesn't work.

(Other system specs if you want them: AMD Athon 64 3800+ 2.4gHz, 1MB RAM.)

[Righteous]

Im having the same problem when I go into window mode and try to use MSN. It just freezes everything up.

System spec are AMD 64 3700+ 1 gig ram, x850xt. I usually get around 100 fps with AA on 4x and AF on 16x

But when it goes windowed, it get to about 3 or 4 fps if I try to do anything else.

[imthebestracerthereis]

so if you would put crappy graphics in the game (in the options) , the performance will be better, and if you put the performance up high the game will have low fps? [ what settings would get you the lowest graphics and the higest fps?]

:noob:

[TyresHot]

i have ati 9550 that have to be overclocked but it didnt change the performance , not a good choive for live for speed online racing simulator.

[Galthar]

Well i'm on ati x700 pro and cat 5.8 and it's same as usual..no fps drops...strange thingy going on here :/ i feel sorry for u guys...i hope it won't happen to me.
As for lfs settings..all maxed out with aa and aff...around 70-80 alone 40-50 during race and teh minimum i saw was about 22-25 with all cars on T1...my pc is gettin old...ok enough from me now.


5,8?? Are these a bit old? try 6.x then write

[NotAnIllusion]

If it ain't broke.. :)

[Electrik Kar]

If it ain't broke.. :)

Those drivers are a year old... :shrug:

Maybe he meant 6.8.

[Noccy]

I managed to get a black screen last night while racing online.
Pressed shift-F4 just as the race was restarting and the game switched to windowed mode ,but the window was completely black, sound kept playing though. When i repressed shift-F4 the whole screen went black.
The only way to solve this was clicking "X" while in windowed mode and restarting lfs.

Pc-specs : A64 3500+ ; AtiX1800XL ; 2gb ram

edit : using U20 patch when that happened

[Ger Roady]

5,8?? Are these a bit old? try 6.x then write

I have the 5.9 too,
Gives me 20 % performance +

( with high detail 1024 x 768 32bit highest around 50 fps )against 6.9 with 40 fps.

So why change ???

Ati 9600 256 mb

[b1lk1]

For 9x00 series cards, stick to old drivers because they are not fully supported with the 6.x drivers. Those cards are becoming old and outdated and won't be up to running the latest games anymore in the near future. Time for the X8x0 series cards.

[jeremysmith]

no problems here with X1900 @ 1920x1200 over 100 fps here with patch U22, blank screen when switching out, usually reappears in 4 - 8 seconds, doesnt seem to be much of a problem for me

i hope this helps for those people who have X8xx and X1K series of cards

have a good day, cya

[Moonclaw]

I used to have vsync turned on (official U and test U's), lfs resolution was at 1280x960@100Hz while desktop was 1600x1200@85Hz. Was not possible to reproduce intentionally but happened occasionally, when least expected. I should also mention that I always use shift+f4 and shift+f9-12 for switching window and fullscreen.

After talking to Vic I figured I'd try without vsync for a while, but also changed desktop res to 1280x960@100Hz and I haven't had one single black screen since then, and it's been over two weeks now. Maybe I've just been lucky or it's vsync/res&Hz related.

Wxp sp 2
3800+ x2
Nvidia 7800GT 91.28