Funny cheat via The Stig

[BigDave2967]

See for yourselves guys and gals, THE STIG aka ARNO named and shamed for cheating online :).

We know its possible, but do you think that there should be a server that allows cheats? That way they can have fun without spoiling others races? Or do you think its best not to have a cheats server at all?

Just checked his stats, he litereally just started racing.

[Jakg]

thank you for that - the user wont be on the [MG] server for a while!

[luzik]

yeah i've got replay with him too.

And there is track bug there :)
player who pit out just after race start is on first place ..just like i was on this replay.

[joen]

We know its possible, but do you think that there should be a server that allows cheats? That way they can have fun without spoiling others races? Or do you think its best not to have a cheats server at all?

No cheats on any server imo, let's keep it pure. Partially allowing/tolerating it means you'll have to explain to (new) players why it's allowed in one place and why not in another place.
Besides, if they feel the need to fool around with it, they can do it offline imo.

[noel_cr]

lol, he could made blackwood with FOX under a minute...
****ing cheaters... :bigeye:

[Albieg]

I just can't realise why cheaters have to be treated differently from wreckers. They both ruin the game. I'm against this naming and shaming attitude, and I would like to understand why there are so many people obsessed with other people stats.
Since I would like to know if and why naming cheaters in this forums is considered a good practice or not, I really would like someone to explain why cheaters cannot simply be reported to the server admins and have to be shamed here instead.

[Memphis1985]

I was racing at the time on the server the replay is saved from.

IMHO, he should be banned and have his licence removed. There is no place for cheating in a sim.

[NetDemon01]

We shouldn't have any "cheat" servers because you know the cheat wouldn't stay there; it'd spread to other servers. Surprised how long this guy was able to lap before they called him on it. Good thing you captured this nice piece of evidence :-)

[Jakg]

no-one sends these replays to the iB, so it doesnt happen, if someone did then this wouldnt have to happen, but instead it gets posted

EDIT - btw, i actually think cheaters deserve longer bans than wreckers

[K.David]

I wouldn't have the guts to fool around/cheat with the kind of system LFS has. Everything is logged, you have a reputation behind a name you cannot change. I think when all else fails to prevent cheating, licences should be suspended for 1 or 2 months. Of course the person can buy another licence but hey, more money to the devs :shrug:

[BigDave2967]

no-one sends these replays to the iB, so it doesnt happen, if someone did then this wouldnt have to happen, but instead it gets posted

EDIT - btw, i actually think cheaters deserve longer bans than wreckers

Hence that laden topic I made months ago.

[Jakg]

Hence that laden topic I made months ago.yes but iirc once you report it to the iB it sends an email instantly to everyone on the list - and i havent recieved any about cheaters

[Albieg]

no-one sends these replays to the iB, so it doesnt happen, if someone did then this wouldnt have to happen, but instead it gets posted

EDIT - btw, i actually think cheaters deserve longer bans than wreckers

Basically what you are saying is that since the correct method doesn't work, an incorrect method should be accepted. I'll reverse the logic: stop this shaming fashion here, and you'll end up having only the possibility of reporting cheaters using different and better means.

[_rod_]

For some odd reason i cant view the replay.. could any of you guys pliz frap it?

[Jakg]

Basically what you are saying is that since the correct method doesn't work, an incorrect method should be accepted. I'll reverse the logic: stop this shaming fashion here, and you'll end up having only the possibility of reporting cheaters using more fashionable means.what i meant was that you dont like the naming attidtude, fine, i dont mind it, but i would rather these things be dealt with through the iB, but branding someone a cheater does make an example out of them

[joen]

I just can't realise why cheaters have to be treated differently from wreckers. They both ruin the game. I'm against this naming and shaming attitude, and I would like to understand why there are so many people obsessed with other people stats.
Since I would like to know if and why naming cheaters in this forums is considered a good practice or not, I really would like someone to explain why cheaters cannot simply be reported to the server admins and have to be shamed here instead.

Although I basically agree with you about the duality, I do think there are other things to keep in mind.
When players are named and shamed for being a wrecker, sometimes there's the possibility that the player in question didn't mean to wreck, but is simply inexperienced. It's not always easy to prove that the wrecking was on purpose. This leads to endless discussions, "you did that on purpose!"..."no, I didn't!"..."yes you did!"....etc
Players who use a cheat clearly know from the start that they are doing something wrong. That for me makes it different.
And i don't think it's about stats for everyone. It shouldn't really matter if someone sets a new PB by using a cheat, but when someone wins a race because of a cheat it affects the competition element of LFS. And that IS an essential part of the game. Not for your win stats, but just because the competition is part of what makes it fun.
I don't encourage or discourage naming and shaming of cheaters, but I do think the iB is the most effective thing to do.

[Becky Rose]

From the Stig's point of view it was a bit like playing an 80's arcade game. Anyway I think cheating is different to wrecking, it's a license violation for one - at least it should be.

Are we at the point that the devs will operate their own "wrecker barricade" to report cheaters?

[ATC Quicksilver]

isnt there meant to be a anti-cheat thing implemented now?

Anyway, i say we hang him by his testicles and throw stones at him, just like the good old days :D

Its sad that people need to do that to win, or in this case not win just show off.

[Captain Slow]

hehe i thought that video was ammusing. do you think the stig could beat the bf1 if he was in a uf1? :D anyway i think a long term ban is in order here.

[keiran]

So can anyone confirm whether or not this person was using U20?

[Vain]

Wether or not he's using U20, he can keep on cheating on U20 servers. Source (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=196517#post196517) (from the U20 Testpatch-thread).

Vain

[SamH]

For the record, as a barricader, I personally consider the use of a cheat like this to be worthy of a report to the Wrecker Barricade. I don't know if others would agree, but they're able to make their own minds up if they receive a report regarding a cheat. At least they can, given the information needed to make that call.

Wreckers are people who ruin races by manipulating the outcome by unfair means. Historically, it's been principally through roadblocks and such-like, but the idea of the Barricade is to share information to server admins, and offer a deterrent to those who would undermine the integrity of LFS. Cheats fit the profile. Please.. use the Wrecker Barricade report form in the short term, while the devs resolve any exploit that might exist.

[nutty boy]

Like you said a wrecker is a person who wins race unfairly, had he not been banned, he would have won unfairly so yes.


I liked Mike Swe in the vid.
He was funny.

[bbman]

Never mind, was posting before reading... :(

[[RCG]Boosted]

for those ppl id say scavier - give them life time ban for their license :p
cheats take the fun out of the game.
we have "allowed" cheats like lfs tweak but server and client needs to have both on and same setup or it wont work. thats alright.
but that way...im not going to do any hotlaps or so until this "problem" is to 100% fixed cuz u cant be sure that the wr time wasnt driven with 2 hp more or not (yes 2 hp make a difference :p).

[nutty boy]

Exactly. I agree with everything Boosted said then.

[AndroidXP]

Some people must really hate LFS. You know, holding up the development process because they force Scawen to update the cheat protection.

Cheating on S2 is pretty stupid though, as people are very attentive, and if there's a replay of you cheating out there, good luck finding quality servers where you're not banned.

[[RCG]Boosted]

and whats the point in cheating in a sim?
want to drive as fast as u want?
get nfs, gta or so.
easily to tweak the cars and u dont have any problems.
and...u get what u want ;)

[trackah123]

it spoils so much.. because i enter servers now with the thought "i hope there isnt any cheaters around here" .. it just dont feel competitive anymore with the thought like "lets try to win this race!" or something like that.. it takes away the fun of fair en competitive racing/drifting/dragracing..

normally you have a bit like adrealine feeling because of the competition.. but with all these cheats going on the feeling is gone a bit..

now of course this doesnt stop me from playing lfs.. but all cheats should really be banned as quickly as possible :)

[nutty boy]

Some people must really hate LFS. You know, holding up the development process because they force Scawen to update the cheat protection.

Is that true. IF it is then i'd like to make an announcement to all clots that cheat.

FOR GODS SAKE STOP. STOP SO WE CAN GET A NEW PATCH. STOP OR I'LL BITCHSLAP YOU"

[Quint999]

For the record, as a barricader, I personally consider the use of a cheat like this to be worthy of a report to the Wrecker Barricade. I don't know if others would agree, but they're able to make their own minds up if they receive a report regarding a cheat. At least they can, given the information needed to make that call.

Wreckers are people who ruin races by manipulating the outcome by unfair means. Historically, it's been principally through roadblocks and such-like, but the idea of the Barricade is to share information to server admins, and offer a deterrent to those who would undermine the integrity of LFS. Cheats fit the profile. Please.. use the Wrecker Barricade report form in the short term, while the devs resolve any exploit that might exist.

Shocked at the replay. Hope the U Test patches are approaching completion and we get a non compatible patch soon that'll knock this on the head

Good call Sam

[duke_toaster]

Wreckers AND Cheaters should be licence and hardware (PunkBuster style) banned for life.

End of.

Sam, what about an automatic bans.ban from the barricade? I assume it would be possible, but it might be easier or hard, what I know about PHP could be written on the back of a postage stamp with one of those whiteboard pens.

[StuntCarRacer]

Cheating on S2 is pretty stupid though, as people are very attentive, and if there's a replay of you cheating out there, good luck finding quality servers where you're not banned.

Wishful thinking. This case was easy, as the cheater wasn't hiding the fact that he is cheating. The car clearly had a lot more power and grip than other cars. However, there is a possibility that a smart cheater could improve his car only marginally, just enough to win. How would you distinguish someone who is cheating from someone who has a better setup and skills then?

[wheel4hummer]

I have an idea, punkbuster for LFS!

[duke_toaster]

I have an idea, punkbuster for LFS!

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000 X 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000

[Moonclaw]

How would you distinguish someone who is cheating from someone who has a better setup and skills then?
Driving and race awareness.

[Hyperactive]

Should this "cheat" be dealt with silence? Posting threads one after another just makes sure that people will find it easier. Let the devs solve the problem and shut up with it :)

[bbuck]

Why would anyone pay £24 for S2 and risk a lifetime ban by cheating!

[KiDCoDEa]

B U R N H I M ! B U R N H I M !

[mrbogeyman]

B U R N H I M ! B U R N H I M !

trust you to be subtle...... :tilt:

[AndroidXP]

KiD is always subtle.

[Becky Rose]

ah Mr Bogeyman, but it was your quotation that added italics...

[duke_toaster]

Should this "cheat" be dealt with silence? Posting threads one after another just makes sure that people will find it easier. Let the devs solve the problem and shut up with it :)

So let's bury our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away then.

[STROBE]

Those replays are appalling. Sadly, cheaters are always going to be around in online gaming - LFS until now has had it easy due to it's niche appeal and close community, but the more popular it gets, the higher the probability of being targetted by cheaters.

Whilst there's undoubtedly a need for a technical way of stopping cheaters (i.e. something coded into the game by Scawen), I do hope that when evidence is brought to light that those cheating get banned. Permanently. They lose their S2 licence.

If they don't, to me that just invites other prospective cheaters with an S2 licence to come and have a go, see what "fun" it is and if they can get away with it. Of course it's the dev's decision how to handle the accounts of cheaters, and I have faith that they know what's best for LFS. But the clause is there in the user agreement that gives them the right to disable the licence, and if this isn't one of those cases, then what is? If they don't, I dearly hope there's a good reason for not doing so, even though we may or may not have the right to know that reason.

[nutty boy]

So let's bury our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away then.

Well we can't do anything about it really apart from argue about being subtle.

[duke_toaster]

Those replays are appalling. Sadly, cheaters are always going to be around in online gaming - LFS until now has had it easy due to it's niche appeal and close community, but the more popular it gets, the higher the probability of being targetted by cheaters.

Whilst there's undoubtedly a need for a technical way of stopping cheaters (i.e. something coded into the game by Scawen), I do hope that when evidence is brought to light that those cheating get banned. Permanently. They lose their S2 licence.

+1

Strip all wreckers, cheaters and so-on of their licences. End of.

[zeugnimod]

Well we can't do anything about it really apart from argue about being subtle.

We can submit the replay to the wrecker barricade, if we see someone using the cheat. Thats the only reasonable action to do, until the cheat problem is solved, isnt it?

[nutty boy]

Has anyone actually submitted the replay we have here to the wrecker barricade because i'll do it if not.

[Jakg]

Has anyone actually submitted the replay we have here to the wrecker barricade because i'll do it if not.one of them has

[KiDCoDEa]

Is the witch sketch from monty python subtle? :D

[Jakg]

Is the witch sketch from monty python subtle? :Derm

"She made me into a newt?"
"ooooooh" from the crowd
"well, i got better!"

[nutty boy]

What, I don't get that.

[Jakg]

What, I don't get that.from the film "The Holy Grail" by Monty Python, althought probably before your time (damn i sound old for a 15 year old!)

[wheel4hummer]

What, I don't get that.

Beware of the knights that say "Ni"!

[Racer Y]

Uhh the more I think about it, there OUGHT to be a "cheat" server.
Think about it... does banning wreckers STOP wreckers really?
No. it just stops the wrecker that got caught and two more show up in their place.
Right now, it seems cheaters are few & far between, so were wreckers and forum trolls at one time ;)

If there was a server, that allowed cheats, maybe the cheaters could all go there and maybe get that crap out of their system....maybe.

Speaking of cheats... we really need better ones, this go fast thing is just
plainly geared for slow witted people... Hell any one could shatter their personal split times before wrecking everywhere with out using that cheat... I want cheats that simulate oil and/or spike strips to be deployed from the back end of the car...Now THAT'S a quality cheat

LOL why can't the devs code potential exploits in the game that would allow cheaters to do that instead of just go real fast?.... will that exploit be on the next update?

When I played Age of Empires waay waay back, there were cheater games played there all the time. Nothing they did on those games counted towards any sort of stats and type in a certain word (I forgot) and you got youself a kid on a tricycle with a really big gun mixing it up with elephants and catapults..

If these people just HAVE to waste all that time to come up with something
that gives you an unfair advantage and takes away from the spirit of the game, then I say it ought to at least be something cool.

[ATC Quicksilver]

Well I think a ban is too much of a let off, lets get their address and remove their sexual orangans so they can't create little cheating offspring.

[NetDemon01]

I want cheats that simulate oil and/or spike strips to be deployed from the back end of the car...Now THAT'S a quality cheat

LOL why can't the devs code potential exploits in the game that would allow cheaters to do that instead of just go real fast?.... will that exploit be on the next update?

Are you feeling alright? Oil and spike strips shooting out the back of our cars? This is LiveForSpeed, not LiveForRoadRage. If you want that sort of weaponry, go back to the Sega Genesis and play Rock 'n Roll Racing :-)

[alland44]

Absolutely no cheaters or cheatservers in Lfs.

It makes me sad to see a replay like this - Now every skilled driver, beating the arse out of us, maby ends up in the grey zone.

If cheatservers are allowed, then I will have more urgent things to do, than spilling my time driving this sim.

The punishment must be hard - Very hard. Potential cheaters have to learn "the lesson".

This is not cutting a corner, or simular to that - This is much worse.
I know I speak for most of the danish drivers, because we had this discussion allready.

[trackah123]

it would be funny to program a protection-code in a way cheatpeople wont get kicked then but when cheat is detected their car instantly breaks down :D (instant broken suspension "F10 all red bars") lol not to forget instant 4 blown tyres as well

that would be so funny

[Hyperactive]

So let's bury our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away then.

Well, talking about it won't make it go away either. If there is a cheat why make posts about it and basically just spread the information?

[Brainblaster666]

Cheating sux! Banned from every FM-Server!!

[Leprekaun]

Well, The Stig had no tact about using that cheat. From the looks of it, he's pressing a button that gives the car a boost like NOS. He wasn't very tact about it because he would make the car reach 300 Kmh which is obviously waaay off the actual car top speed. I don't get why people like to race with cheats like that, it doesn't prove that they're quicker than you and also its unfair on the other racers.

[Freeliner]

Those replays are appalling. Sadly, cheaters are always going to be around in online gaming - LFS until now has had it easy due to it's niche appeal and close community, but the more popular it gets, the higher the probability of being targetted by cheaters.

Whilst there's undoubtedly a need for a technical way of stopping cheaters (i.e. something coded into the game by Scawen), I do hope that when evidence is brought to light that those cheating get banned. Permanently. They lose their S2 licence.

If they don't, to me that just invites other prospective cheaters with an S2 licence to come and have a go, see what "fun" it is and if they can get away with it. Of course it's the dev's decision how to handle the accounts of cheaters, and I have faith that they know what's best for LFS. But the clause is there in the user agreement that gives them the right to disable the licence, and if this isn't one of those cases, then what is? If they don't, I dearly hope there's a good reason for not doing so, even though we may or may not have the right to know that reason.

+1

[St4Lk3R]

+1

+1 * 10^10^10^10^10^10^10...

[cool_big_andy]

Here is my lfs anticheat banner^^

[Crazy Harry]

No cheats on any server imo, let's keep it pure.


+1 (/ban 9999)

[tehSnaile]

From the EULA (http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=agreement)
1.5 Extreme disruptive or offensive behaviour by a user, towards the developers or members of the community, may result in temporary or permanent suspension of the user's Live for Speed license.

It's there. EULA is a binding contract. Use it!
To the rest of the community, tell other about this important point in the EULA. Put it in welcomemessages or whatever. It will atleast scare the "curious cheaters" away. The worst kind of cheaters if you ask me. The ones that downloaded a cheat to try it but decides to keep it. Like scriptkiddies. It'll keep them from trying.

[nutty boy]

Here is my lfs anticheat banner^^


HAHA. Loving it.
Great one.

[Brainblaster666]

Here is my lfs anticheat banner^^


:thumb:

We should make a donation,so these guys can buy a jetplane and visit all cheaters personally!! :-D

Greetings BlasteR :)

[alland44]

Here is my lfs anticheat banner^^


Who are those guys ?
:scratchch

[kurent]

All these talk about cheaters is making them more eager to cheat. You have to understand the psychology of a cheaters. They are attention whores, simple as that. They want to be talked about, even if they are hated, they are the centre of attention. They want to join a server and stand out, they want some to be confused about how they do that and others angry they are doing it.

The worst thing you can do to them is ignore them, save the replay and if possible ban them from the server.

I am sure the people who created the cheat are reading all of these posts and laughing and enjoying the problem they have created. Enjoy the attention, it seems you don't get enough in real life. :thumb:

[tinvek]

at least this sudden upsurge in cheats proves one thing


LFS is an established popular online game (sim):)

[Psymonhilly]

i'm hating this cheating coz it just spoils it for everyone else (since this stuff has happen lfs just hasnt been the same :() mightly upset :nod:

[cool_big_andy]

Who are those guys ?
:scratchch

have you ever played "Mafia"? these guys are from this game

[alland44]

have you ever played "Mafia"? these guys are from this game

Nopes !
I don`t play computer games. I only drive sims, and 99% of the time it`s Lfs.

[nutty boy]

You do know the mafia though don't you.

[cmckowen]

Mafia is a great game, years ahead of its time!

Those old school cars are the shiznit! ...but yes i dont want Mr Salieri(spelling) to catch up with me! :tilt:

And to the cheaters, you are a waste of bandwidth, go get a life!

[ATC Quicksilver]

I want to get mafia, but i can't find it anywhere. Seems its too old. Its like GTA in the 50s :thumb:

[Darkone55]

I want to get mafia, but i can't find it anywhere. Seems its too old. Its like GTA in the 50s :thumb:

30's. And more realistic. And a great storyline. With some depth. :)

[nutty boy]

I remember i went down a mountain road once on that game, not knowing where I was going. I went for ages. That's how big the land span is. It's like a real country, you can go for miles in the countryside, then you come up to signs saying road closed eventually. The thing that stopped me going further on that road was that half the barrier was broken and I was going really fast, sped round the corner, didn't get round it, went through the broken barrier and rolled down the hillside. That was funny. I was killed.

[cmckowen]

I want to get mafia, but i can't find it anywhere. Seems its too old. Its like GTA in the 50s :thumb:


Exactly, im searching hard for it at the moment, have been for a couple months now, i know somebody i know must have it :(

[nutty boy]

Not exactly ideal because you live in South Africa but anyway http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=mafia+ps2+game&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postcode&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

[wheel4hummer]

Exactly, im searching hard for it at the moment, have been for a couple months now, i know somebody i know must have it :(

I have it, but the 3rd disk is badly scratched.

[nutty boy]

3rd disk. What 3rd disk

[ATC Quicksilver]

I am going to get my old man to place a bid, cause i don't use ebay but i gave him a load of my old games to sell..so he owes me :thumb:

[cmckowen]

Not exactly ideal because you live in South Africa but anyway http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=mafia+ps2+game&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postcode&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

Yes South Africa does have a few downfalls, ISP being the number 1 :shrug:

Woohoo 100 posts, i feel....normal :shy:

[BigDave2967]

Going off topic guys!

[Racer Y]

Nopes !
I don`t play computer games. I only drive sims, and 99% of the time it`s Lfs.



.........

[cmckowen]

Going off topic guys!


Yeah sorry bout that, was looking quickly at ARNO's online racer stats, last race was BF1 on Oval, best lap a 26.77 , imagine that had been on the FM server! I think there would of been some harsh words :D

[nutty boy]

If he's not using a cheat he's the superman of LFS.

[BigDave2967]

He just got banned from another server for using the same cheat. He's never going to get the message.

[ldriver]

He has done a server of his own , he 's on it right now , called the stig.

edit : i got kicked from his server as i f****d up all his races by using shift r every lap

[nutty boy]

haha if he can't join public servers and race he creates one where he can't get banned.

[Nobo]

together with other known cheaters....lol

[nutty boy]

They can hold annual weekly cheat meetings.

"Oh them people at the LFS forums, they whine so much about us using cheats"
"yeah i've been banned from every server now. It's not fair"

Then they'll all go cry together.

[Crazy Harry]

If he's not using a cheat he's the superman of LFS.


He is. 29.74 is world record.

[foofighter]

I know that Scawen has put a lot of work into the new script feature, but may be they should take it back. If you watch the replay, it is obviosly the he is pushing a button which results in a boost. Looks like the script feature really enables cheating in LFS. :( It's just a shame!

[tehSnaile]

I know that Scawen has put a lot of work into the new script feature, but may be they should take it back. If you watch the replay, it is obviosly the he is pushing a button which results in a boost. Looks like the script feature really enables cheating in LFS. :( It's just a shame!
I doubt it has to do with a boostbutton. I am pretty sure the sudden movements are a result of the clientside precalc where the car *should* be (to save bandwidth) simply doesn't match the actual position sent.
But thats just my logic. I really don't know how frequent the positions are updated. Someone with knowledge of the networkcode could probably answer that.

[duke_toaster]

I doubt it's anything to do with scripting. However it works, it is exploiting a bug of some sort OR a modified .exe (possibly). Using a hex editor to get banned. How boring.

[Fordman]

Wow, see the Ugly Boost Bug has reared again. Oh well, live with it guys, it will be gone soon enough. This is not the first time its come about, and won't be the last time either. :(

[rediske]

could someone please change the name of the thread to

'Funny cheat via The Git' :nod:

[Chris_Kerry]

Wow, see the Ugly Boost Bug has reared again. Oh well, live with it guys, it will be gone soon enough. This is not the first time its come about, and won't be the last time either. :(

He talks sense people...

[510N3D]

He is. 29.74 is world record.


29.74? :smileypul :scratchch

btw. i can see a new Clan comming: NCNF: No Cheat No Fun. Maybe the biggest clan ever one day? :D :pillepall :D

[Crazy Harry]

29.74? :smileypul :scratchch

btw. i can see a new Clan comming: NCNF: No Cheat No Fun. Maybe the biggest clan ever one day? :D :pillepall :D


Argh. Was still at .74 /.76.

It´s 29.68... :schwitz:

[Racer Y]

I dunno I still think they need to have better cheats than just the "go real fast one" I really like the oil spray from the rear end one ;)

The more I think about it, ppl that use that "cheat" aren't being cheaters. They're being cowards. Kinda like steroids in pro sports...
now if the athletes were to contaminate the PP of their competitiors...
then that act would be worthy of being called cheating.

LOL make a cheat that makes the OTHER drivers go faster.....
I guess I ought to be quiet.. seeing how whoever digs the pit usually is the first to fall in. But oh well......

Seriously, I repeat again, maybe there ought to be a "cheats only server"
something where stats wouldn't be recorded (unless they made a "cheats" set of stats)
A lot of people and I mean A LOT of people play games using nothing but cheats. I don't really know why, but they do. Also, alot of these same people eventually get tired of using cheats and try to play... pure(?)

I dunno we have CnR servers... Banger servers... Drift servers.... Why can't there be servers with stupid crap allowed? Plus, it would keep em out of our hair on the "normal" servers.

[[RCG]Boosted]

no no no.
we dont need that.
like i already said, we have lfs tweak, mecanik.
with these u can tune up the cars on a "fair" way and its possible to use online too if the host and client has the app running and the same settings.
so...we do have "allowed cheats" every1 can set up a server and play with them (i know they r old versions but im sure when the test patch phase will be over there will be an update) and no1 get "hurt" :p

[Hatemaker]

I just watched this with my girlfriend looking over my shoulder. She has played a bit before, and I'm getting her into it, but she's quick to learn what cars can do what. Her first words were: "Wait... the FOX doesn't do 300 km/h... is that guy f**kin' cheating?" I laughed that even SHE could see that so soon.

[alland44]

A lot of people and I mean A LOT of people play games using nothing but cheats. I don't really know why, but they do. Also, alot of these same people eventually get tired of using cheats and try to play... pure(?)


This is NOT a game. I repeat myself. LFS is NOT a game. Lfs is a simulator !

This is not yet the ultimative simulator, but it`s close :)

[Dygear]

I have an idea, punkbuster for LFS!

No, pb is the biggest peace of crud out there. I used cedega to play online games from time to time (Cedega is a linux program that makes a windows environment with DX9 so that you can play games.). And you simply can't use cedega with PunkBuster. Don't blaim cedega, most of it is simply not it's fault. Live For Speed's detection system is fine, they just need to make sure that the client does not know when the server is asking for the clients fingerprint.

[dawesdust_12]

The real dumb part, I think that LFS needs a VAC style system, whereas Valves games need a LFS style anti-cheat. LFS needs a more hidden cheat detection, where its not "OH THIS BYPASSES! WE CAN CHEAT!!", it needs a more gradual system and after a week or so, the person gets for example a 1 month ban for cheating or something. Whereas CSS and stuff needs the instant "ZOMG, SOMEONE IS CHEATING, KICK" style anti-cheat.

Maybe the devs have to consider the ability for people to report others cheating, gather usernames, then at xx date, just do some mass 1 month bannage for cheating. But obviously there would have to be a group of people to watch the replays becuase for the devs it may be a bit challenging.

Sort of on a tangent, but a VAC style anti-cheat (with secure/in-secure servers where cheaters would be after cheating) might work better for LFS?

[Dygear]

No, you can't tolerate cheating on any server, it would undermind LFS.

[dawesdust_12]

Well, I don't mean tolerating it on the un-secure servers, I just mean that people who have been banned from secure (cheat checked) servers, can only join insecure servers until their ban expires. Which means that there would become in theory 2 communitys, The Majority of us, in the Secure servers (with options of insecure) then the lowerlife scum, who are restricted to the 1 or 2 insecure servers, probably with jerkoff admins, and bunch of morons speedhacking eachother.

I'm sure after people getting exposed to 1 month of only racing morons who speedhack would teach them never to cheat again.

[SamH]

Cheating, like wrecking, seems rightly to be regarded as "socially unacceptable", in the LFS community, and since most of (if not all) the top servers joined the barricade I think wrecking on S2 has definitely dropped off to a shadow of its former self.

Cheating will go the same way as wrecking, I reckon. The benefits of it are miniscule - one or two victories - but the consequences are too severe to consider, if they get caught. Anyone can save a replay, and report a cheat to the barricade.. their actions are as good as set in stone ;)

[duke_toaster]

Sam, what do you think of a global ban file generated from the Barricade? Would it be possible/easy? I would help if I knew anything about PHP. :)

[Quint999]

Well, I don't mean tolerating it on the un-secure servers, I just mean that people who have been banned from secure (cheat checked) servers, can only join insecure servers until their ban expires. Which means that there would become in theory 2 communitys, The Majority of us, in the Secure servers (with options of insecure) then the lowerlife scum, who are restricted to the 1 or 2 insecure servers, probably with jerkoff admins, and bunch of morons speedhacking eachother.

I'm sure after people getting exposed to 1 month of only racing morons who speedhack would teach them never to cheat again.

well if you cheat on secured servers on Source Games (Day of Defeat , CounterStrike etc ) then its permanent ban and you can only play on unsecured servers of which there are very few. Only choice , buy a new account.

if you cheat on punkbuster secured servers, Call of Duty2, Battlefield2 etc then you get Hardware banned .. punkbuster not only bans you from that specific game via cd key etc, it also generates an algorithm of your hardware and bans you from using all punkbuster managed games not just the one youve cheated on. Only way around that, buy a new system , pretty extreme yes, but tough i say thats the risk you take.

So permanent ban them to be honest, theyll cause more issues coming back to secure servers with ppl accusing them of cheating, constantly speccing them etc. Plus a months ban is not much to fear for some less regular players. Once a cheat always a cheat. If they want to play again , buy a new account.

[Dygear]

Sam, what do you think of a global ban file generated from the Barricade? Would it be possible/easy? I would help if I knew anything about PHP. :)

Should be very easy to do and I do know alot about PHP, but I don't know anything about how Barricade works. I would wait for lurLFSD to come out as that is going to have a master ban list plugin comming with it. Barricade could simply set up there own web server with the plugin send updates out. It's quite a good plugin :).

[SamH]

A global ban file wasn't ever the intention with the barricade, but it's become feasible with the new planned version. Mikey (mkserve) is developing the new API, and one of the net effects of that will be the option to ban any/all verified names showing on the barricade database.

If we get stuck, we know where to come :thumb:

[SamH]

I don't know anything about how Barricade works.
It's the simplest thing.. a central repository of reports of wreckers, including MPRs to support the report. There's also a rating system of sorts, where barricaders who have watched the MPR can add their comments, which range from "he's never coming on our server again" to "I don't see anything worthy of a kick, let alone a ban".

When someone is reported to the barricade, an email is sent to all the admins of barricaded servers to alert them to the problem, and with a link to an MPR so they can see for themselves. On a good day, a new wrecker probably gets to wreck on one or two barricaded servers before he starts getting "connection refused" messages. Sometimes he's reported and banned from servers before he ever even reaches one of the barricaded ones.

The thing I do want to stress is that the barricade is an information service. If servers want to use its facilities to ban globally, that's not our shout and we'll facilitate them. Most barricaders though, I think, want to review the offence before they act on it, and then they can act without that action being potentially disproportionate to the offence.

Back firmly on topic, I'm not sure what the UKCT admins will do long-term about people who use exploits. The initial reaction seems to be "burn him, he's a witch!" and I don't see that changing yet. There's an extra-devious side to a cheat that isn't often present in a wrecker. Wreckers are usually blatant about what they're about, but cheats probably aren't. "Sneaky"?

[dawesdust_12]

But thats the biggest stupidity with cheaters, they use it so blatantly, now if they used it wisely, they could pick those tenths up, and not arise suspicion.

[BlackEye]

But thats the biggest stupidity with cheaters, they use it so blatantly, now if they used it wisely, they could pick those tenths up, and not arise suspicion.

:x
No need to give them silly ideas, thank you very much:)

[duke_toaster]

well if you cheat on secured servers on Source Games (Day of Defeat , CounterStrike etc ) then its permanent ban and you can only play on unsecured servers of which there are very few. Only choice , buy a new account.

if you cheat on punkbuster secured servers, Call of Duty2, Battlefield2 etc then you get Hardware banned .. punkbuster not only bans you from that specific game via cd key etc, it also generates an algorithm of your hardware and bans you from using all punkbuster managed games not just the one youve cheated on. Only way around that, buy a new system , pretty extreme yes, but tough i say thats the risk you take.

So permanent ban them to be honest, theyll cause more issues coming back to secure servers with ppl accusing them of cheating, constantly speccing them etc. Plus a months ban is not much to fear for some less regular players. Once a cheat always a cheat. If they want to play again , buy a new account.

+1 for a PunkBuster type system in LFS. But instead of just licence banning them, hardware ban them.

[nutty boy]

+1 for a PunkBuster type system in LFS. But instead of just licence banning them, hardware ban them.

You came up with the idea.

[FlyingSam]

hmmm:scratchch... i think if a hacker want to cheat, nothing will stop him... why? because i play america's army too (it's a free game that uses punkbuster) and the pb isnt a problem to them. sometimes i see a hacker that control the server (sometime the server was oficial, from the army...:bigeyes2:) and they write like admin. kill you without aim, without fail, the bullets go faster... and the most funny is that if you kick or ban him, in 0 seconds hes back. and if we speak of half life... really, im not sure if punkbuster will be helpful. if hackers can do things like those, you can know the rest:nod:.

[Crazy Harry]

The good thing in lfs: Ban via user name. If someone see a cheater, contact the server admin and he will use the famous /ban X 9999 cheatfixer. :thumb:

[Funnybear]

I am assuming there is a clause in the purchase agreement that states that if you are found to be cheating then all online accounts appertaining to your user name will be deleted. A further purchase would be required to activate a new account. Thus only offline play is achievable through the data already purchased . . . .

If there isn't a clause such as that one, there should be. Surely if it's part of the user purchase agreement then there is nothing that a 'cheater' can do about having the online account terminated. I think that is fair enough.

Appologise if this actually is the case, I'm useless at checking my facts. Actually, I'm not useless. I just can't be bothered half the time.

[Kim Gripping]

Why would anyone cheat in LFS? I never got to understand that. Nothing that needs to be unlocked, and nothing good comes out of it.

[duke_toaster]

I am assuming there is a clause in the purchase agreement that states that if you are found to be cheating then all online accounts appertaining to your user name will be deleted. A further purchase would be required to activate a new account. Thus only offline play is achievable through the data already purchased . . . .

If there isn't a clause such as that one, there should be. Surely if it's part of the user purchase agreement then there is nothing that a 'cheater' can do about having the online account terminated. I think that is fair enough.

Appologise if this actually is the case, I'm useless at checking my facts. Actually, I'm not useless. I just can't be bothered half the time.

I agree. Licence bans (one strike and you're out) for wrecking and cheating. Sort all of the problems.

[Jakg]

Why would anyone cheat in LFS? I never got to understand that. Nothing that needs to be unlocked, and nothing good comes out of it.because they cant win any other way? some people are screwed up in the head remember

[HittiS]

Why would anyone cheat in LFS?
Why would anyone try to hack Pentagon's website? Just becuse to see if they really manage, same here!

Without the hacker it wouldn't be any cheats! The cheater himself is just a little angry fella with pimples and low confidence that are out of revenge for something..

Pathetic!

[SamH]

The devs don't actually run servers, we do it in the community. The devs give us the means to run our own races, leagues, teams and so on, but it's us that actually DO those things.

It might sound odd, coming from a guy that everyone knows is mega-anti-wrecker/cheat, but I honestly don't think it's the dev's problem (except in really extreme circumstances, and I don't know of any examples of those).. it's our problem, in the community, to police our own environment.

There is an automated system which warns people who repeatedly get banned from servers by email, and in worst-case scenarios it imposes bans. That SUPPORTS us in our efforts, but I don't think it's intended to be the one-stop-shop for all wreckers. That's our baby, to make it "socially unacceptable".

We, "the people", can ban anyone we want from our servers. We can choose to race on wrecker/cheat-protected servers, or admin'd servers, or both. We have the choice to race with the bad guys or not. We have the tools, and all we need is the presence of mind to use them. :thumb:

[_rod_]

Sorry but, if there is a cheat on the game, its because there is failure somewhere in the game, its not the comunity job to stop cheaters, but we do it anyway because we like here, and we wouldnt want to see it go down stairs (i would hate to see that). Its the Devs job to stop cheaters.

Edit: that didnt sound anywhere near as i thought it would, i mean to say in a nice way, thats it the Devs job to do it, but we (at least me) would love and do anything to help the Devs to stop the cheating.

[SamH]

Sorry but, if there is a cheat on the game, its because there is failure somewhere in the game, its not the comunity job to stop cheaters, but we do it anyway because we like here, and we wouldnt want to see it go down stairs (i would hate to see that). Its the Devs job to stop cheaters.
Sorry.. I didn't explain myself properly. I was specifically referring to the "punishment" of cheaters/wreckers, and the suggestion that their licences be revoked when caught. I wasn't referring to blocking vulnerabilities in the program itself.. we can't do that part in the community :)

[_rod_]

Oh ok, that i agree :D. And i just realised that i miss read your post also.. i should know better ;)

[SamH]

We're both on the same page.. I just spilled coffee on mine, that's all :thumb:

[Funnybear]

I understand you Sammy my dear nibbler boy you. I think that was very eloquently put and I whole heartedly agree. Cheaters come from within the community so, unless it is a serious esploit, coding or somesuch bug, then it is up to us to make cheating a 'bad' thing.

But having said that, it's the same with suicide bombers. If someone wants to do it, they will find a way of doing it. You can't protect everyone all of the time, it's just impossible. What you can do is minimise the risk as Sammy said, just play on protected servers that have good security measures in place, empty all your pockets before hand and don't try and take your Zippo lighter that was given to you by your daughter for fathers day (Inscribed and everything) onto the plane. Even if it is the only lighter you have on you. The guys with guns don't like it when you get a bit upety. They don't have much of a sense of humour.

But anyway, yes. We should play on well admined, well policed servers that play an intergral role in keeoing cheating to a minimum. Prehaps we should instigate an Fight Against Cheating Office (or F.A.C. Off).

It's up to us, it's up to you . . . .

[Scawen]

There were a few hosts online that were still not protected against the recent cheat.

It's possible that is the reason why there was some cheating still seen after the patch U20 release (when cheat protection was also added to S, T, U, U19 and U20 hosts).

I've now added protection to the remaining hosts and I hope that will finally stop the current cheat. For that reason I will now close this thread to avoid confusion.

If you do see a definite cheating incident online again please save the replay and let us know which host you saw it on.