rFactor is out - Who's gonna be the first to give us some comparisons?

[Cue-Ball]

The full release of rFactor just hit the net and I know some hard core LFS players have their activation codes purchased already. So, who's going to be the first person to give us a review and some comparisons to LFS (and GTR, GTL, etc)?

[Aircav]

im in the process of obtaining it :)1 hour left . i dun think its fair to post initiall comments in here, and i think if i post at the RF section theyd get annoyed becuase its not official stated as released... tricky situation

edit: oops as ive written this it seems its officiall.

[Gunn]

Moving this to the off-topic section where it belongs.

[Silly]

I got it and I'm pretty impressed; the handling of the cars is excellent, much better than the MP demo. I think I will play this one a lot...

edit: Hm, size limit for picture attachments (my "world record" as I was the first to finish a flying lap ;))- I thought it would just get a thumbnail link.

[dUmAsS]

from another forum...

after playing for an hour (testing session and season mode) im not impressed.

mabey someone can help sort these isues out...

my brake light is allways on. i set brake deadzone to 15%
i have to have anti lock brakes to high, if i touch the brakes then a big plume of smoke is in the mirror (not even 25% brake pressed).

might be because of my braking isues but the teamred car is slower then the uf1000 :/

i just dont feel very imersed in the game

not sure if its a fov, textures, whatever but i just dont feel like im in the car :( unlike in lfs


also theres no demo mode, so i had to shell out actual money for it! *dies*

[Djbob]

Disappointed. Its very early days though so no doubt will adjust to feel etc. but I find it similair to GT Legends in that I dont feel any connection with track, which is what it is about I believe. Infact I feel like I am in a spaceship with all those wierd colours and lights going on. Prob would not have spent hard earned £ on it if had tried an updated demo. In my (very early) opinion, I will be not be spending much less time on LFS I imagine.. shows what a good job these three guys must have done.

edit: it seems there is a 48 hour money back guarentee, excellent.

[ORION]

I can only quote Hoellsen from the German Forum :)

http://www.skidmarkracing.org.uk/downloads/game.jpg

[Aircav]

i had that with GTR, where the feeling of traction, imo lfs is the only sim that replicates feeling through the steering column, and this is the key factor to lfs feeling the way it does, i reckon its a feel u gota get used too.

[Cue-Ball]

I can only quote Hoellsen from the German Forum :)

Man, the in-car view in rFactor is HORRIBLE! It doesn't look or feel the least bit real to me. What's the game on the right?

[tristancliffe]

Thats a comedy image.

I didn't like the MP Demo of rFactor. I don't like the hype of rFactor. No one who I trust has said much/anything good about rFactor.

I shall not be paying good money for this 'game' until (if?) it becomes a must have due to mod support etc etc. But F1C had good mods, and I never payed for that - it was awful.

The graphics in rF look like my art when aged 4
The sound is no better than GTL, and that's pretty awful imo. Not a patch on LFS's feedback. In fact, I'm convinced some sounds (and I'm basing this on the MP Demo) were just copied out of GTL...
The feeling is ALL wrong.
The naffness is just too big.

I'm not missing out, at least yet, by not buying it.
I will save my £24.99.
I have already, recently, paid for S3.

I made the right decision.

I fully appreciate that my OPINION is NOT definitive fact, and I may as yet be proven wrong. However, rFactor has done NOTHING to convince me to buy it.

[CAPTeN]

Man, the in-car view in rFactor is HORRIBLE! It doesn't look or feel the least bit real to me. What's the game on the right?

Same question.

It looks nice. :)

[sil3ntwar]

when playing the demo it felt like i was sitting in a truck. I dont see what the big hype over this game is about.

[KiDCoDEa]

What's the game on the right?

GTP for papy n2003 done by redlinedev. Best mod ever imo, but im suspicious :)
also prolly the hardest to dev since it required much reverse engineering and emplyed quite a few coders... also includes updated adapted vroc online app. a gem of the sim world , shadowed by the ludicrous and unqualifiable behaviour of first-racing/iracing against mods. 1.0 rls with 1.1 frontend/physics is the best combo u can have...
Here's a few pics i did at dev/testing time (i had a blast testing the 23764 physics builds with the rest of the chimps :) )


http://66.98.226.14:65080/IMG_3867edit3.gif

http://66.98.226.14:65080/gtp.html

http://66.98.226.14:65080/color.gif

[SpiderX]

Love the signature kid..... lol...

[Phlos]

It owns LFS. Tyres physic are just awesome as everything else :nana:

I didn't like the demo but i love the full game. It sounds weird at the beginning, but after around 20/30 laps it's sounds real driving/physics :)

[Tweaker]

I can only quote Hoellsen from the German Forum :)
http://www.skidmarkracing.org.uk/downloads/game.jpg

Wow, hate to say it, but I cannot believe I didn't realize rFactor's interior's look like crap. No better or worse than LFS tho :( Still, an insanely silvery bright steering wheel looks horrible. And the LCD guages :zombie:

EDIT: There is also a curved rollcage bar on the front a-pillar??? Structurally, that is a bad idea, and I have never seen a rollcage like that. Most cages are built with straight, solid bars, not curved ones....

I still don't even like the look of their tracks either. When playing the private test version at the infield oval track, it seemed like I was racing at a slot car track with plastic props everywhere. Still narrow as hell, and the curbs still look like candy cane texture.

I think I am gonna wait for an honest opinion to come to a conclusion for this game... If there are many positive ones, and GOOD insightful ones, I might buy it, but the chances already look slim for me.

[R3DMAN]

I have been playing the full release version of R Factor and all those people who was wondering how it would compare....


well...


LFS still wins in my books

[KiDCoDEa]

It owns LFS. :)

thats suberb. you have a new scene to hack now. cya. :wave23d:

[stratocaster]

Well, The graphics are not the greatest, they have that dingy look like all the other ISI sims, not crisp or clear.

Physics? They are quite good, but I like s2 better. (a matter of opinion though.)

MP, Great, as good as or better than, s2 or pappy`s.

Ffb, ok.

I do love the day to night transition and the night driving.

A.I. Not as dumb as s2`s but not a whole lot brighter either.

I haven`t played it for more than a couple of hours though, so my impressions could change, but if your an onliner like I am, so far so good.

[Boris Lozac]

Can u give us more info.. Physics wise, can you do a video or something..?? I mean, i believe you ;) but it would be good to hear some more..

[R3DMAN]

well i cant really do vids or anything but..

it just doesnt feel like im in a car..

maybe the way im setting it up but to me its just not right..

some of the things i like for example

- smash your car during race, when you pit in it doesnt fix it
- headlights
- day / night transitions
- the way you 'do-up' your car
- the way you need x ammount or experience to join multiplayer games

but other than that its ust basically another racing game. nothing special.

[KiDCoDEa]

MP, Great, as good as or better than, s2 or pappy`s.


that goes against a torrent of opinions i've been hearing , but ok... each with their own :)

[KiDCoDEa]

ot: here's a request to anyone that reads this. when doing a thread, try to name it with words that relate to the content. makes search easier and helps general readbility of forum.

[Phlos]

thats suberb. you have a new scene to hack now. cya. :wave23d:
Lamer. :really:

[stratocaster]

that goes against a torrent of opinions i've been hearing , but ok... each with their own :)

I have cable, with 6mb down and 750 kbs up so I don`t have a whole lot of trouble online anyway.

I been on three servers so far and didn`t see any lag or warp so far.

[Pain-less]

^^^Maybe an Admin might want to change the thread name just for that reason?

[XCNuse]

.. or merge it with the other rFactor thread in OT section ;)

[Mbrio]

edit: it seems there is a 48 hour money back guarentee, excellent.Only if you're having problems getting the game to work and have reported that to their support site within 48 hours of buying and still can't get it to work despite their support.


thats suberb. you have a new scene to hack now. cya. :wave23d:Indeed... :wave23d:

[stratocaster]

Well, we shall see about how the refund works, I just submitted one.

[Gunn]

Two threads merged into one.

[Cue-Ball]

Well, we shall see about how the refund works, I just submitted one.

Didn't you just say "so far, so good" three hours ago? What made you change your mind?

Does anyone care to give a really in-depth review? Hearing "it sucks" is nice and all, but not really constructive. :)

[danowat]

Well, I just brought an unlock, I am a big racing sim fan, and I am not one for "brand loyalty", so I will download and run it with an open mind......

Dan.

[KiDCoDEa]

since there is a refund i guess we can consider that, the demo.

too much hassle though.

[dUmAsS]

aparently you have 30 days to claim a refund. i will be desiding today if i want one

[dontsimon]

Kid, with regard to the GTP mod, what do you mean by 1.0 rls? And what is the track in the first gif?

[Djbob]

[QUOTE=Mbrio]Only if you're having problems getting the game to work and have reported that to their support site within 48 hours of buying and still can't get it to work despite their support.

48-HOUR MONEY BACK GUARANTEE:

Your satisfaction is our top priority. If we are unable to resolve a problem or if you are not completely satisfied with your product, we are pleased to provide you with a refund if your request is received within 48 hours of purchase. To request a refund, visit our Customer Support Center.

[Rumiko]

I have to use to use two sets of pedals in LFS (two-wheels), because both have only one functional pedal. Can someone tell me, if rFactor supports multiple axis, like LFS does?

[Bob Smith]

No demo? How am I supposed to know if I want to buy it? Silly...

[MagicFr]

It does handle multi devices.
I didnt tried the game enough to give physics feedback.. but anyway...

Is it fair to campare a final product ( rFactor ), to S2 ALFA version... i dt think so ... everybody know that S2 still needs lot of works into physics especialy aero and tires... so should be normal that rFactor feels better atm..
I still think LFS WILL be the best sims.
But.. rFactor will have lot of mods = REAL TRACKS and REAL CARS... so we will compare to real things...

Chooosing between LFS and rFactor? no... i'm poly-game lover :)

[J.B.]

No demo? How am I supposed to know if I want to buy it? Silly...

Didn't you know? It's the bestest sim evar! They've been telling us for years! :nod:

Seriosly though, this has to be the first sim since GP2 that doesn't have a demo. Silly indeed.

[dUmAsS]

there are ghosts in rfactor!

http://files.vadertrophy.com/jon/grab_002.jpg

[Jouni Trogen]

Well, ive been playing the rFactor MP Demo for a few weeks via IP connection with my online mates and it works mighty fine. In fact with same net connection it takes more clients than LFS. So in that area it has improved a lot from F1C.
I didnt play the F1C game at all, but the mods that where made, some I played a lot, and thinking that this will be the case with this rF too. ETCC, JGTC and So76 hade the cars that was my "cup of tee."
For me its all about online play with mates, and the MP demo already showed that its good fun swapping paint together.

[ajp71]

When playing the private test version

Whats that?


- the way you 'do-up' your car
- the way you need x ammount or experience to join multiplayer games

Seriously? If I have to upgrade my car with credits I'm not interested.

[R3DMAN]

Whats that?




Seriously? If I have to upgrade my car with credits I'm not interested.


as fas as i know you have to buy the cars you want to race on multiplayer. althought you start with 3 of the 4 cars avaliable, but i think do-up your car with the cash you win from races.

[KiDCoDEa]

Kid, with regard to the GTP mod, what do you mean by 1.0 rls? And what is the track in the first gif?

1.0 was the real release with correct car names and a whole field of realworld paints. 1.1 was the forced revision by first/iracing that bought the n2003 code from sierra and waited for mod to be finished (took around a year) to take action... ill wont go into that now. history and facts are in forums all around except the deleted stuff off rsc. not that they have anything to do with iracing...
that corner is one of my faves at watkins glen (long cfg).
so if u blend 1.0 content with 1.1 frontend etc u should be ok.

peace.

[Ayahuasca]

No demo? How am I supposed to know if I want to buy it? Silly...

Damn, reading this a bit earlier would have saved me a useless download. I am to used to the way lfs handles this...

And the game needs you to be logged in as Administrator? Why? The error message it is displaying is not helpful either, it is an empty string. A long way to go for them.

[Racer Y]

HI. I don't play many video games any more and I get older I play less and less

It would take an AWFUL LOT for a racing game to come along and get me away from LFS.... LOL LFS is more than a game/sim for me. It's more like a twisted obsession. If you get that game and like it, cool. Trouble is with every nice thing said about Rfactor, there are about 5 or 6 bad things said about it.
I really could care less for this title. I was just bored and reading this thread
to kill time while the kids get ready for me to take to school.

But what REALLY got my attention was a screen shot of another mod that Kid posted... the redline mod.

@ kid (if you're there :) ) Is that a screenshot from the N2003 GTP mod from Redline? If so, did you enhance it or something? It don't look nearly as good on my comp. also, did you get more than one of the tracks to work? I could only get that nubering(?) track to work right.
And going off topic further still (sorry) WHen I installed that mod onto nascar, I just overwrote the original game with out copying it...boring boring game.
Was gonna spray airfreshener all over the cd and use as a car deoderizer,
hanging from my rear view mirror, but the patch put that off long enough more me to lose the disc and forget about doing so :)

[ajp71]

Yeah, and that gentleman probably got that information from this thread... see those posts above yours? Anyway, the ISI_BABYFACTORY cheat code works, so there shouldn't be any need to mess with the files.

What are they playing at offering a career mode that can be bypassed not only by using notepad but by typing cheats?


http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=221231&page=2&pp=25

[Silly]

LOL, one person complains that the career mode is arcadish, and the other that it can be bypassed if you don't like it... :rolleyes:

[dontsimon]

1.0 was the real release with correct car names and a whole field of realworld paints. 1.1 was the forced revision by first/iracing that bought the n2003 code from sierra and waited for mod to be finished (took around a year) to take action... ill wont go into that now. history and facts are in forums all around except the deleted stuff off rsc. not that they have anything to do with iracing...
that corner is one of my faves at watkins glen (long cfg).
so if u blend 1.0 content with 1.1 frontend etc u should be ok.

peace.

Thanks for the info. :) I have the 1.1 version sitting on my HDD, just need to get round to setting it up. I assume it isn't possible to get hold os the V1.0 content??

I have a version of Wat Glen long for NR2003, but I don't recall any sweeping left turns. I'll take another look. Where can i get that specific version??

[CAPTeN]

Why the devs didn't realease a final demo for those (like me) who aren't convinced ? :really:

[ajp71]

Thanks for the info. :) I have the 1.1 version sitting on my HDD, just need to get round to setting it up. I assume it isn't possible to get hold os the V1.0 content??

I have a version of Wat Glen long for NR2003, but I don't recall any sweeping left turns. I'll take another look. Where can i get that specific version??

The tracks and cars are still on the net, hosted by other sites, I'll try and find a link for you.

[KiDCoDEa]

Thanks for the info. :) I have the 1.1 version sitting on my HDD, just need to get round to setting it up. I assume it isn't possible to get hold os the V1.0 content??

I have a version of Wat Glen long for NR2003, but I don't recall any sweeping left turns. I'll take another look. Where can i get that specific version??

http://www.gtpzone.com

there are more sites on net with great tracks. i advice roadtwo rattlesnake point by alex ulleri...

the 1.0 content is worth it, try emule or torrent sites like torrentspy etc...
sry i cant help more since im credited ingame and...

btw, have i ever said how much i love first-racing/iracing? ;)

[spankmeyer]

The more I play rFactor the more I'm getting the feeling that LFS is lacking. The whole "being at the races" feel and atmosphere is on a whole new level above LFS. Listening to LFS's sounds makes me cringe now after hearing cars in rFactor. LFS most definetly needs a big improvement on the audio part. Maybe time to hire a sound designer?

But hey, it's a good thing that now we got two fine sims at the moment, right?

[DodgeRacer]

I agree, the ISI games definatly have the atmosphere just about perfect (other than the fake car sounds) but when it comes to physics, im just not feeling it, i can feel what im doing in lfs car, but in r factor its like, im just kinda along for the ride, there is no sensation of acually driving the car (grip, suspension movement, body roll ect), lfs and papy games spoiled me on that i suppose, but if games dont have that now its just no fun for me then (see GT4, i loved gt games till i started playing lfs) (and yes i have played the full game)

[inCogNito]

The more I play rFactor the more I'm getting the feeling that LFS is lacking. The whole "being at the races" feel and atmosphere is on a whole new level above LFS. Listening to LFS's sounds makes me cringe now after hearing cars in rFactor. LFS most definetly needs a big improvement on the audio part. Maybe time to hire a sound designer?


it's not hard to use recorded sounds like GTR or rF.
LFS has another philosphy, you'll have to accept that. And maybe someday it's as good as those 2 games, but with all the advantages of synthesized sounds.

[Gunn]

Have you guys ever heard of LFS S2 Alpha? LFS isn't finished at all yet, but when it is finally finished that would be the best time to make comparisons.

[durbster]

Please don't post your 'opinion' of rFactor unless you've actually played the bleedin' thing. It's difficult enough to get an overall judgement without the pointless comments from people who are just guessing what it might be like. :rolleyes:

[Cue-Ball]

Have you guys ever heard of LFS S2 Alpha? LFS isn't finished at all yet, but when it is finally finished that would be the best time to make comparisons.

Alpha or not, it doesn't matter. LFS S2 Alpha is available now, rFactor is available now. That makes them direct competitors. Not to mention the fact that LFS actually costs MORE than rFactor (a finished game).

I love LFS, but you can't reserve judgement just because it's "not finished". It's available for a fee, the same as rFactor (and other sims) so it needs to be compared on it's merits as it is right now[/], not as it may be some time in the future.

Please don't post your 'opinion' of rFactor unless you've actually played the bleedin' thing. It's difficult enough to get an overall judgement without the pointless comments from people who are just guessing what it [i]might be like. :rolleyes:

While I agree with you to a point, I don't need to play the game to know that the cars look like ass (both exterior and interior). I can see that much from screenshots. Also, the game's track layouts are all shown on the rFactor web site. I don't need to play the game to know that the tracks are fewer and less varied than LFS.

But, these are both things that can (and will) be changed since rFactor is so open to modding. I really, truly hope that the control, physics, and game mechanics of rFactor are solid. As long as those things work well, the graphical stuff can be modded and additional tracks can be added. I can't wait to drive a '69 Boss 302 on Laguna Seca. LFS won't let me do that, but maybe rFactor eventually will.

[Gunn]

That makes them direct competitors.Hardly.

[RMachucaA]

After having played for a few hours....

LFS is still better.

Graphics wise in LFS, its so much more natural, the colors, the way its not oversaturated, the car models etc..... its all much nicer overall.

Physics wise, rfactor shows typical ISI handling which i hate, i dont feel like im driving, more like swinging a carrot infront of a mule.

Netcode wise... it doesnt compare, lfs is better.

I really hope some good mods improve on the game, as is i feel a bit hollow after having paid for it.

edit: forgot to mention sounds, they are amazing in rfactor

[dUmAsS]

Not to mention the fact that LFS actually costs MORE than rFactor (a finished game).

actually, rfactor cost £0.99 more then s2 ;)

[tristancliffe]

I was going to say that Dumass (I love calling you that :P)

[inCogNito]

and you could still way to buy until the final version is out. it's your choice...

[dUmAsS]

(I love calling you that :P)


*cries quietly in the corner*

[danowat]

Brought, Installed and played, and MY opinion?, its certainly no LFS beater......., I am not sure how this is gonna sound, but I'll say it anyway, it feels very "american", a bit brash, a bit gaudy....I dont know, it just doesnt feel "right".

Bottomline is, rFactor DOES NOT contain anything that I have seen so far, that isn't bettered or as good as LFS, except for the ricer addons....

And, I am no "fanboy", if I believed rFactor to be better than LFS, I would say so

Dan.

[MAGGOT]

Bottomline is, rFactor DOES NOT contain anything that I have seen so far, that isn't bettered or as good as LFS, except for the ricer addons....

How do you figure that they are ricer addons? All the addons actually do something to improve the car. They aren't just random parts to make it look '1337' or something.

I agree that LFS is better, but that doesn not mean that rF is no good. rF is a very good game. Better than anything else ever made (except LFS).

MAGGOT

[danowat]

How do you figure that they are ricer addons? All the addons actually do something to improve the car. They aren't just random parts to make it look '1337' or something.

I agree that LFS is better, but that doesn not mean that rF is no good. rF is a very good game. Better than anything else ever made (except LFS).

MAGGOT

I don't know, it's just that whacking a friggin great wing on a small hatchback looks a bit ricer to me..........

I never said rF was "no good", I just said it wasnt as good as LFS ;), there is a BIG difference between those 2 statements.

Dan.

[Tweaker]

When playing the private test versionWhats that?

You know that USGP Lan Party they announced on their site? Well that version of the game with the formula car and the oval-infield track was available privately to a few companies for public display. I played it for a cockpit simulator company, Trinity Racing Concepts. It had full BRD equipment and was a nice setup, but the game didn't feel good with it :(

[spankmeyer]

Tried LFS tonight as I hadn't touched it for quite some time. And it felt downright horrible and dead after rFactor. So different and very weird. It felt like driving on perfectly flat and smooth surface (and LFS having a very limited soundscape didn't help the feeling at all). I'm using DFP, so it's not über-cheap equipment that's causing the experience, mind you.

(And I used to love Live for Speed's feel)

:(

I don't know what to do anymore...

[geeman1]

I don't know what to do anymore...
Wait for updates. LFS is going to get better.. at some point.. maybe.. hopefully..

[Tweaker]

What do you expect, you're trying something new, you're bound to feel the differences with something you've played a lot in the past. If it feels good or bad, I'll still play it, games just get old fast if you play them too much, and a new a game gives you something to do once again :shrug:

I still don't understand how "LFS feels perfectly flat and smooth"... unless you only drive on the skidpad :p

[SpiderX]

Tried LFS tonight as I hadn't touched it for quite some time. And it felt downright horrible and dead after rFactor. So different and very weird. It felt like driving on perfectly flat and smooth surface (and LFS having a very limited soundscape didn't help the feeling at all). I'm using DFP, so it's not über-cheap equipment that's causing the experience, mind you.

(And I used to love Live for Speed's feel)

:(

I don't know what to do anymore...

It can only be a joke right.... tracks on rFACTOR are simply horrid, the phisics are completely weird.... you feel like you are sliding all the time..... regarding sound i cant get it... samples do feel good and you have alot of clinks and clanks..but then on a echoes and wind...nothing... on the open wheelers of course...btw....do they have anything against arms on the wheels?

Oh well.... to each is own.....

[L(Oo)ney]

It can only be a joke right.... tracks on rFACTOR are simply horrid

But they feel ALIVE. You can feel and see the undulations in the track, the little bumps ect ect - Something LFS does not have, which makes it feel like the tracks "smooth".

LFS tracks feel like brand new surfaced tarmac. Rfactors feel like they have been there for years. (Note : havent played the recent demo, this is what i remember from playing the first demo..)

[Tweaker]

The only reason people think rFactor has crazy bumpy tracks (like they feel it) is because the game, by default, comes with excessive G-Force movements of the head. The tracks are smooth in rFactor too you know....

[Blackout]

I still don't understand how "LFS feels perfectly flat and smooth"... unless you only drive on the skidpad :p

Me neither...just drived with UF GTR on South City Town, and it really wasnt smooth at all, bumbs everywhere :)

And about rFactor, I have tried the MP-demo. The first impression was "grrgh" becouse the steering, wheel wanted to pull left or right full all the time didnt like beeing on the centre, could have been a bug but I could fix it, and just made me think negative things about the game. Cars look plastic and indeed litle rice too,....There was (and still is) something about LFS when you try it the very first time, when I tryed the S1 demo I just knew that this is the game I want, the first impression is important to make customer to buy and LFS does it way better than rFactor or GTR/L...

[L(Oo)ney]

The only reason people think rFactor has crazy bumpy tracks (like they feel it) is because the game, by default, comes with excessive G-Force movements of the head. The tracks are smooth in rFactor too you know....

Maybe so, but Rfactor gives you a better sense of being on a real track i think.

You wouldnt be able to create a perfectly smooth track in the real world, like you can in 3d max..:nod:

[MyBoss]

And about rFactor, I have tried the MP-demo. The first impression was "grrgh" becouse the steering, wheel wanted to pull left or right full all the time didnt like beeing on the centre,


I know, its the same on GTR, but you can fix it. Just have to press an invert button or something. Don't remember exactly what I did, but its not too difficult.

What I have learned when I am comparing new games to my fav games is that I HAVE to be open minded, or ellse I won't like the game because my fav game is better no matter how good the new game is.

There is goods and bads with rFactor, but the same is it with LFS to, I bet there will come patches that will fix buggs the next months, but I won't bother buying rFactor until I know it is going to survive and isn't yet another overhyped "sim" racing game.

[Tweaker]

There are just little things that LFS needs to make you feel like you're on the track. Most importantly, which I STILL am waiting for in LFS is curb noises, better dirt sounds (in the fenders/wells), .... other external miscellaneous sounds such as cars roaring in the distance, crowds cheering (btw there isn't anybody in the grandstands or standing on the sidelines watching you race.....), .... extra track additions ... more ad banners, balloons, festivities, etc etc....

That's the part (all of the above) that lacks in almost every sim's tracks I think ;)

I mean... u ever take a tour at Aston? Great track, but the exterior details are lacking to make it seem lively.

[MagicFr]

Me neither...just drived with UF GTR on South City Town, and it really wasnt smooth at all, bumbs everywhere :)

And about rFactor, I have tried the MP-demo. The first impression was "grrgh" becouse the steering, wheel wanted to pull left or right full all the time didnt like beeing on the centre, could have been a bug but I could fix it, and just made me think negative things about the game. Cars look plastic and indeed litle rice too,....There was (and still is) something about LFS when you try it the very first time, when I tryed the S1 demo I just knew that this is the game I want, the first impression is important to make customer to buy and LFS does it way better than rFactor or GTR/L...

u didnt configure it right, using logitech ff driver, force must be set to -100% ( MINUS HUNDRED PURCENT ).


Appart from that, i bought the game, and love it .. I play with DFP set to 500°, physics feel right, FFB feel right, graphics are a bit too 'cartoonish', sounds is great , i dt care it is "old" sample system, IT sounds great.Career mode is very good, the upgrade part is very interestings, sort of Gran Tourismo like mode :)
I still love LFS, but rFactor will come with Addon track ( real ones) , new cars ( real ones ), and that LFS will never have..
Spiderx... how can you fell it is always sliding ????
anyway...
I love both.. good 4 me :) that is 2 sim to drive :)

[L(Oo)ney]

and that LFS will never have..

I love both.. good 4 me :) that is 2 sim to drive :)

Never say never. :smileypul

Nice to see someone who can enjoy both! Good on you.

Both have good and bad points, so play both, and you get the best of both worlds. :thumb:

[spankmeyer]

I have always used very high head movement settings in LFS, but I was just amazed how calm and dead the driving sensation actually is in LFS - even when racing GTR cars at the speeds of over 250 km/h. And then I tried the XR GT Turbo and... wow... even worse. It really feels like driving on flat surface (although I see the small bumbs in suspension view).
I'm not getting into the discussion which engine sound creating method is better, samples or real-time generating, because both have pros/cons. But none of you can deny that there should be plenty of more sounds in LFS if the sim is trying to be more realistic. I'm not asking that there should be 100 000 sounds playing at the same time, so be reasonable when flaming, please...

Personally, the lack of immersive sound enviroment is the main reason why I suddenly feel so disconnected when playing LFS.

But hey, I might grow tired of rFactor soon, who knows. And I seriously doubt if ANYONE can do the multiplayer code and playability better than our precious Devs. Cheers!

[L(Oo)ney]

But none of you can deny that there should be plenty of more sounds in LFS if the sim is trying to be more realistic.

Anyone who even tries to deny this, must have their sound turned off. I think just about everyone is in agreement about this. :tilt:

[eobet]

Man, the in-car view in rFactor is HORRIBLE! It doesn't look or feel the least bit real to me. What's the game on the right?

Oh my god, I was convinced that the right image was the rFactor one! Absolutely amazing.

No demo? How am I supposed to know if I want to buy it? Silly...

Wait, no demo? Then what is this 400mb file I am downloading?

[KiDCoDEa]

Spiderx... how can you fell it is always sliding ????


even without demo i take a chance...
because all isi powered sims when u curve you're put in a void of feel?

[Cue-Ball]

actually, rfactor cost £0.99 more then s2 ;)

In the US LFS is more expensive. I can get rFactor for $39.99US but when I registered LFS about two weeks ago it was $47 and change, IIRC.

[Tweaker]

In the US LFS is more expensive. I can get rFactor for $39.99US but when I registered LFS about two weeks ago it was $47 and change, IIRC.

$47 USD???? uh......

12.00 GBP = 21.9957 USD

[Cue-Ball]

Wait, no demo? Then what is this 400mb file I am downloading?

That's the full game. You won't be able to do anything other than install it unless you pay for an unlock code. There is no demo in the game and there is no separate demo at this time.

[stratocaster]

Didn't you just say "so far, so good" three hours ago? What made you change your mind?

Does anyone care to give a really in-depth review? Hearing "it sucks" is nice and all, but not really constructive. :)

I liked the day to night transition, but the more I played it, the less I felt I was getting my moneys worth.

Again, If you liked any of ISI`s graphics in other games, or the MP demo, then the graphics will be ok with you. I think they look dull and dingy. Sound is ok, Ffb is ok, Physics are fine, MP is great. It`s just a good sim. Nothing great, not the OMG!! OMG!! OMG!! kind of sim that will make an A.S.S out of you.

It isn`t the GPL killer, it isn`t the LFS killer, it`s the same old ISI in new clothes. For me LFS is not only a great sim, but it is fun to drive, RFactor just wasn`t. Getting my money back to preorder S3, I think The Devs, for LFS are going in the right direction, as to the way a great sim can be.

[Cue-Ball]

$47 USD???? uh......

12.00 GBP = 21.9957 USD

I just checked and it cost $42.63 exactly. So I was a few bucks off going from memory, but rFactor is still cheaper. :) And keep in mind that S2 is only alpha (more expensive, but it's not "released" software) and is only two-thirds done, as everyone is keen on pointing out. So, by the time S3 is out, buying the full LFS will be much more expensive than the full version of rFactor.

[MyBoss]

That's the part (all of the above) that lacks in almost every sim's tracks I think ;)

I mean... u ever take a tour at Aston? Great track, but the exterior details are lacking to make it seem lively.



yeah, and I would love to have the abbility to drive wherever I want to on the track, like if the race is held on AS Club, and I want to take a little trip up to the chicane on AS Historic then I should be able to do so.

That could even give more opportunities for special layouts :trampolin

Remember you could do this on the racecircuit on world racing.

[Richard Torp]

My game is still LFS, no doubt about that. Im looking forward to new car sounds, night transition and a little bit better tyre grip later on in LFS.
I had run most of the evening alone on the rFactor servers. There are only 90 racers online according to Racecast and i have trouble finding somebody to race with. If I find some, people are leaving after only one lap or so. Not much are going on for a completly new game.

But maybe eveything is getting better when Mods arrives.

I LOVE LFS, thx. devs.

[DodgeRacer]

I just checked and it cost $42.63 exactly. So I was a few bucks off going from memory, but rFactor is still cheaper. :) And keep in mind that S2 is only alpha (more expensive, but it's not "released" software) and is only two-thirds done, as everyone is keen on pointing out. So, by the time S3 is out, buying the full LFS will be much more expensive than the full version of rFactor.
That would be because you paid for S1 and S2 at the same time, if you had s1 already it would have only been 22$ for S2, which is hugely cheaper than most games with an expansion pack (in example sim city, its normaly 40$ for the base, then say another 20$ for the addon pack, whereas lfs is 20$ for the "base" and 20$ for the "addon", so yes, r factor is cheaper, but you are only paying for 1 game, in essance you paid for lfs plus an addon pack. I hope this make sense. :)

[XCNuse]

that may be true dodge.. but rFactor has (guessing) about the same amount of stuff S2 has (through pics that i've seen.. i have no clue how many tracks/cars it has)

i kinda liked the rFactor MP demo.. it had some good +'s like the sound.. was very well put together.. but some negatives too.. like.. the odd shading (as already pointed out lol) but overall.. looks like quite the interesting game imo

[thd]

Lamer. :really:

Yes yes. On your way now, rFactor awaits your genius!

[Mbrio]

I just checked and it cost $42.63 exactly. So I was a few bucks off going from memory, but rFactor is still cheaper. :) And keep in mind that S2 is only alpha (more expensive, but it's not "released" software) and is only two-thirds done, as everyone is keen on pointing out. So, by the time S3 is out, buying the full LFS will be much more expensive than the full version of rFactor.

A couple bucks more and it makes the difference between a 2 bit crack whore and a $1000 call girl. ;)

Seriously though, I haven't bought rFactor yet so I can't really comment on the driving or any of that, but it does look godawful. The 3d models seem to be nothing but boxes (look at the mirrors for example and that freaky steering wheel that looks like it's been carved out of granite...) and the textures look like they were drawn in MS Paint. Especially their 2d art is just plain bad. What's with all those bevels? And the thick straight black lines? And that horrible interface (the overlay and the in-car dials)? And the over saturation? The textures all look like high res versions of 7 years old textures. There's no proper detail in them. It all looks cartoony to me. And it doesn't have to be. Look at the GTP mod and the Simbin games (say of Simbin what you want, but they do know how to make an interior look good). ISI could have easily hired some of those F1C mod making guys to actually make it look good. And that "but it's a modding platform" doesn't do it for me either. This game is supposed to be finished, but they're relying on mod teams to actually finish the game for them. So now I'm going to have to wait a year or so for a mod team to make a mod that actually is of a professional standard? I don't think so. I'll stick with LFS...

/rant out.

[deggis]

that may be true dodge.. but rFactor has (guessing) about the same amount of stuff S2 has (through pics that i've seen.. i have no clue how many tracks/cars it has)
rFactor has 5 (very American style :() tracks and 6 cars. I don't have rFactor but the track layouts and car info is on the rFactor website.

[sinbad]

Absolutely underwhelmed by this rFactor game.

Nothing is outstanding, in my opinion. Sounds are nice, except for the wind and road noise, oh, and other cars which sound like keyboards but with fewer keys, and the annoyingly repetitive crash/smash mp3.
GFX look ok, but not "revolutionary", and the modelling of some of the cars, interiors and tracks is almost funny. Not that it runs that well on my computer, which handles the easily-as-nice-to-look-at LFS with no problem.
Handling is too mushy, numb and vague, even the single-seaters, but I guess that's a "realistic tyre model" for you, hmm, glad my real car has an unrealistic tyre model, it's much more fun.

It really makes me wonder just how much engine sounds influence people.

[tristancliffe]

It really makes me wonder just how much engine sounds influence people.

More than I dare to imagine... There are people who won't drive LFS BECAUSE of it's sounds, even though it trounces every other driving sim (imho of course) in nearly every other department. Hell, all departments!

[Dibblah]

I don't know, it's just that whacking a friggin great wing on a small hatchback looks a bit ricer to me..........

I never said rF was "no good", I just said it wasnt as good as LFS ;), there is a BIG difference between those 2 statements.

Dan.
... Don't forget that's a front wheel drive hatchback.

Cheers,

Allan.

[KiDCoDEa]

It really makes me wonder just how much engine sounds influence people.

a LOT.

[J.B.]

a LOT.

Yep, GTR even had me fooled for a few laps. Then I noticed I was always shifting much too late because the sound wasn't giving me the information I needed.

[Gunn]

Odd, but a lot of people are willing to endure that horrible BLAT BLAT BLAT of the on/off canned sound just so they can hear a screaming engine.

[Mattesa]

That would be because you paid for S1 and S2 at the same time, if you had s1 already it would have only been 22$ for S2, which is hugely cheaper than most games with an expansion pack (in example sim city, its normaly 40$ for the base, then say another 20$ for the addon pack, whereas lfs is 20$ for the "base" and 20$ for the "addon", so yes, r factor is cheaper, but you are only paying for 1 game, in essance you paid for lfs plus an addon pack. I hope this make sense. :)

That's an interesting point of view.

I see S3 as being the LFS game, and S2 S1 as decontented versions. IMO it's quite expensive if you consider that in some ways LFS has a lot less tangible content than its competitors, at a higher price. It is a niche product, with a niche product price point.

Not trying to bash LFS. Just stating my point of view. I've been a demo player for quite some time, and I'm almost ready to buy. Almost. I'm cheap, and can only justify spending on one game. The price is one obstacle, and rFactor is another. If/when I do buy LFS, it better damn well be the best, most realistic, and a well supported sim with longevity as well as content.

I'm willing to wait a little bit longer, and hear some more opinions before I make my decision. Personally I love LFS. As objective and clear-minded as I try to be, I secretly want LFS to be better than rFactor.

[Shotglass]

but the track layouts and car info is on the rFactor website.

where ? i just cant find it ... 9cough9 badly designed website 9cough9

[SpiderX]

Magic, i cant understand how you dont feel it, you and i know that some issues, specially at low speed still exist in LFS... but rfactor is the other way around...at slow speeds it almost feels good....at high speeds its completely unrealistic...completely..... just grab the FOX (best car for me phisics wise and fun wise in LFS) and the Trainer in rFACTOR wich should be similar.... theres no way it can even be compared....FOX is light years ahead...

I dont say that rFACTOR is not a good sim, it is.... but its nothing near the amount of hype and holy graal everyone was mumbling about....i even think now in the ASS review of it and i think it was really a ASS super hyped up review.... if this is the Revolution then thank you but no thank you.....

Most of the feeling you have in GTR (except you now can catch slides....uau...big improvement...they added an if, if car starts to slide and user turns wheel on oposite way, please do react and dont snap always...

Regarding the Multiplayer i congratulate ISI because it is really a step forward regarding to what they had before, it feels nice now... but LFS gave that step 3 years ago....

Track layouts, why the hell everything is narrow.....

Stuttering....this one im not even gonna coment on.... Scawen once stated that he was no directx expert...dam.... i imagine if he was..... LFS maxed out on my portable computer never (and when i say never its really never) stutters... rFACTOR on not even near good quality graphics and DX7 stutters ramdomly.... exactly like F1 2000,2001,2002, 99-02,GTR and GT Legends.....

Sound...well....sound... i have to say that the sampling may be good and sound better most of the times then in LFS, nothing that GTR didnt gave us already and better, alot of gear and metal sounds...cool.... now pass near a wall....sound is the same...not perfectly done Echoes like in LFS (maybe because with samples its alot harder), blast thru a straight in the trainer at 190 km/h...not even a little shshowshh of wind...... still its sound more POWERFULL because its sampled....

Entering a server and seeing people on their own skins...LFS yes....rFACTOR....nope.... it does make a hell of a difference....

Did i mention how the tracks are horrid already:smileypul....

theres so many other points i could keep enumerating that make LFS a better sim, but its pointless...in the end it comes all to the perception of each one of us of how it should be....

Ill play both because i play them all....but my love is still the same... LFS, not only because of what it is now, but specially because of what i can forsee ahead because of the people behind it......

And for those who can count regarding content...check how many tracks LFS has and Cars and how many rFACTOR has.....

The biggest point in rFACTOR is the modding comunity... and that, yes, it makes a hell of a difference because theres alot of talented people around that want to contribute with quality to it..... i still remeber the pleasure i had of driving a civic type r on RSRs ETCC mod for F1C, or in GTR giving a spins around a well modeled Estoril....BTW... tracks are much better in GTR.. wich uses a older engine....funny he...

Oh well...i hope all of them improve till we reach that sim racing nirvana we all want...

Peace

PS: Forgot to mention how everyone bashed LFS because the cockpits where poor..well...they are a little yes (compared to GTR or GTP), but FFS they are not those horrid things in rFACTOR, again modding can save it....

[dontsimon]

btw, have i ever said how much i love first-racing/iracing? ;)

Do you know something I don't?? ;) ;)

[Silly]

Graphics-wise, I'm looking forward to this (http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=221323). One direct link (http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=309368). Finally the superb texture quality that is needed to replace the original "mixed bag" ones.

I've been playing rF for a while now and really like it. (I have to laugh out load every time I see somebody whining about this or that not being exactly like they wanted it.) The physics model is like a cross between older ISI engines and GPL, which means that the flaws (IMO) of the older ISI stuff are mostly gone, and the driving feel has become nice and believable. It's not revolutionary at all, but it gets the job done.

I'm sure that rF doesn't even come close to LFS or nK Pro in terms of what's actually calculated, but as a completed package, it's nicely put together - there are no annoying flaws in the physics engine at all, which is more then you can say about LFS S2 in its present alpha state.

Frankly, I don't understand why people are being so defensive around here. It sounds as if some of you are trying incredibly hard to find fault with rF no matter what. I think that approach is totally unnecessary; I think LFS will very likely be superior to rFactor in terms of physics before long and I'm very glad I bought S2 to be a part of the process in a small, tiny way. (I do wish Scawen would talk a bit more freely about the physics. E.g., I still don't know if LFS calculates tire response dynamically or not, but I digress.) Likewise, I'm glad I've got rF because it's a nice, mostly finished product.

They're both great!
:grouphug:

[mike11973]

I still prefer LFS over it...I had to try it b/c of the hype and the future mods that will be released....after playing it for the last 12 hours or so and going back to LFS...LFS simply feels better and works better...it is not as resource hungry on a computer and in my opinion just works better...At least LFS states openly it is still in its Alpha version (which still beat the supposed final version of rF). I simply think ISI marketed it like a average movie with alot of hype but bottom line its NOT all that. Looks very cartoonish. The physics for the f1 cars is questionable. Alot of ppl seeing it as simply a F1C with better netcode...I will give it that the online play is good. The fan crowd seems to have very mixed opinions of it at their forum. Some are simply upset while others are in denial...bottom line...we all paid $40.00 for a average product that is relying on the community to develop it further so ISI can move on and develop their next great game.

[stratocaster]

Frankly, I don't understand why people are being so defensive around here. It sounds as if some of you are trying incredibly hard to find fault with rF no matter what. I think that approach is totally unnecessary; I think LFS will very likely be superior to rFactor in terms of physics before long and I'm very glad I bought S2 to be a part of the process in a small, tiny way. (I do wish Scawen would talk a bit more freely about the physics. E.g., I still don't know if LFS calculates tire response dynamically or not, but I digress.) Likewise, I'm glad I've got rF because it's a nice, mostly finished product.

They're both great!
:grouphug:

I don`t think anyone is being defencive around here at all, and nowhere in any of my post have I said that rFactor, was a bad sim. I`m just letting people know that it isn`t what it was hyped up to be.

As far as the modding of rFactor, take a look at the F1 mods. Most have never been completed, a lot of them just wasn`t very good, and the three or four mods that was great took how long to be completed?

I just started playing S2 since the end of June. I was bored with GPL and NASCAR 03,(played them for years) so I bought S2 for something to tide me over till rFactor was out.

Well, S2 took me by suprise, (I didn`t try the S2 demo) I got more of a sim than what I was expecting. Knocked my socks off. rFactor didn`t do that, and thats the one that I thought would.

I`m glad your enjoying both sims and you are getting your moneys worth out of rFactor. :^) I just didn`t think I was. I also am not seeing anyone on this form whining about rFactor, just people stating their opinions about what they like or don`t, just like you did. :^)

[danowat]

I think these simple words sum it up for me.....

IT'S NOT AS GOOD AS LIVE FOR SPEED

Its that simple, I spent most of this evening trying VERY hard to like rFactor, but I could'nt, someone said the tracks in rF feel alive and have bumps and LFS doesnt?, bloody hell you can't have run the UFR at FE Gold then, also in the real world, purpose built race tracks are reasonable smooth anyway.

The main difference between the 2 is that rFactor feels like a GAME and LFS feels like a SIM, LFS is a simulation of real driving, at it achieves this very well, rFactor looks to me like it was built to be a game rather than a sim and as such from either the inside or the outside it doesnt look or feel very real at all, take the Rhiez or whatever that little hatchback is called, go to the external view, and steer lock to lock, I have NEVER seen a car move about on its suspension so much from just moving the steering wheel.

As for the sounds, the only thing that rF has that LFS doesnt is tranmission whine, but as for the actual engine sounds, they are no better than LFS, in fact I can't believe how poor the rFactor trainer sounds.

Bottomline is, if you own and enjoy LFS there is no need, apart from maybe some of the nice looking mods that are coming for rF, to get rF.

Dan.

[tailing]

Brought, Installed and played, and MY opinion?, its certainly no LFS beater......., I am not sure how this is gonna sound, but I'll say it anyway, it feels very "american", a bit brash, a bit gaudy....I dont know, it just doesnt feel "right".

I've only seen a bunch of screenshots but I got the same feeling, especially some of the in-car shots. For some reason I just immediately knew it was an american made game. Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, just interesting we got the same feeling.

[spankmeyer]

Plenty of LFS fanatics here (duh, it's their forum). I was wondering has there been any progress reports or info about the S2-not-alpha-but-full-with-new-features -version? Last thing I heard on the subject was that the Devs would take it a bit easy after alpha release.

[Nick_ll]

Nothing is perfect.
See? As soon as there's a good mod team that's gonna release something for rF, that mod has chances of becoming the most interesting package (considering they release both new tracks and cars as the original content is really bland in rF).

On the other hand, LFS isn't far from getting things right, but the problem is that it lacks in detail almost everywhere. LFS needs more sounds for example. It would also be nice to have textured tires sidewalls and BOLTED wheels (which apparently are super-glued or stuck with magnets ATM). It might also be nice to get some people in the grandstands, assigned pitboxes and garages per racer, pitcrews, sounds, and maybe some physics fixes.
I'm not gonna change to rF for the moment, but LFS better take some leaps in areas that help the feeling of real things soon.
We're already there with our leagues and teams and skins and events. Now just need a more immersive feel :)

[budabudabass]

rFactor's great fun to play, but it'll never be a real sim like LFS. I bought it with that viewpoint and therefore am not disappointed. Sometimes LFS gets a bit much and I just want to play a "game". I bloody hate proper arcade games and I see rFactor as a happy medium... I can rag around in something fast with less frustration than LFS, but I at least have to work a bit to get it round the track. Of course... this gets boring after a while, so that's when I go back to LFS. Then when LFS starts to do my nut I switch to rFactor. Works well for me.

[ColeusRattus]

rFactor's great fun to play, but it'll never be a real sim like LFS. I bought it with that viewpoint and therefore am not disappointed. Sometimes LFS gets a bit much and I just want to play a "game". I bloody hate proper arcade games and I see rFactor as a happy medium... I can rag around in something fast with less frustration than LFS, but I at least have to work a bit to get it round the track. Of course... this gets boring after a while, so that's when I go back to LFS. Then when LFS starts to do my nut I switch to rFactor. Works well for me.

When I am frustrated with LSF (rarely in demo, as the cars tend to behave quite well... still havent got below the 1:30 on BLGP though, so need to work on my setup...) I switch over ot RBR. Two tries on a rainy, muddy stage, and I am that frustrated, that LSF seems like holidays :D

Converning rFactor: Didn't like the old demo, but the ASS review made me curious. Still, Gonna wait for a demo to arrive, to see if I am going to buy it.

Anyways, going to buy my s2 license today, but using my bank account (4players.de), it will take till next week for me to join the pleasures of online competition...

[Gabkicks]

all these confilcting opinions:nut: dunno who here knows what they are talking about. I hope they release another demo

[ColeusRattus]

all these confilcting opinions:nut: dunno who here knows what they are talking about. I hope they release another demo

I guess ALL of them know what they are talking about: their personal tastes ;)
As I actually liked how GTR and GTL-Demo drive, I probably will invest in rFactor. I just don't like buying blindly, so I will wait for a demo...

EDIT: Just found out you can only buy per Credit Card (Paypal is also only usable wit a CC here in Austria...) so I won't get it. YAY, more time with LFS ;)

[Blackout]

Plenty of LFS fanatics here (duh, it's their forum). I was wondering has there been any progress reports or info about the S2-not-alpha-but-full-with-new-features -version? Last thing I heard on the subject was that the Devs would take it a bit easy after alpha release.

OMG, just cmon..they have been working like hell, dont you think they should have litle time off too? They could have been not to give us the Alpha, so please, give them a litle break :)

[Neokiller]

ya they deserve it alpha is a amazing work and we all hope to see some improvement in the final version.

rFactor is a good game for some fun sometimes, but it doesnt have the quality nor the fun as LFS.

[DasKlee]

That's an interesting point of view.

I see S3 as being the LFS game, and S2 S1 as decontented versions. IMO it's quite expensive if you consider that in some ways LFS has a lot less tangible content than its competitors, at a higher price. It is a niche product, with a niche product price point.

hm compare it to EA's F1 sims or to papys NR series

you buy lets say NR2002 - and when NR2003 comes out, you do not automatically get the new physics and graphics features for free, you have to buy NR2003

same goes for allmost every other sports game - championship manager or the NHL/FIFA/NBA/Madden Football/PES series, it doesn'T matter

and also the arcade racers like NFS or race driver do it this way. if you bought TOCA/DTM race driver 1, you won't get the nice new graphics and changes to the physics for free with the release of the 2nd or 3rd of the series

LfS is the only game i know, that gets all the updated features for free (like graphics, physics, damage, tire model...) - and just the addon content has to be paid for (tracks and cars)

so if you look at it this way, it is a real bargain

[psy00]

LFS is the most fair game i know(and the best racing sim:) , normaly i would never buy a product that you must have a internet connection or make a telephone to customers support to activate it every time you format your HD or change something but the devs prove that they do exacly and honest what they say(with the keys every month e.t.c.) that does the trick for me unlike rfactor from what i read you have only 3 free unlock codes , no demo of full version yet and some misunderstanding about the price with VAT to uk customers , LFS is not try to get out the sim fast but complete from scratch ,gives quality not some improvements over a existing sim engine .
Mods will be great for lfs but it will ruin the multiplayer part a lot as we know it, that is what the flight sim IL-2 is doing well so players will enjoy the multi more every good efford for a new plane from community goes to the devs first so quality is ensured then released with a patch :) , of couse i'd like a track editor and car editor when S3 is released :D but everything is better for all if goes first to the devs and to be official released later so all will have the same game not hacks .
bye! :)

[Mattesa]

so if you look at it this way, it is a real bargain


Now compare it with... everybody's favourite punching bag, GT4. 700 licensed cars, a large number of licensed tracks, and the most realistic graphics of any game period. There is a lot of content in GT4. I do understand that GT4 is the software equivalent of mass production, and economies of scale allow the producers to spend lots for development, yet keep the price of the product(relatively) low. It is $60 CAD. That is a bargain.

Too bad GT4 doesn't drive well though, and that's where LFS comes in. LFS S2 at $53 CAD does not match that level of content, and I'm not sure if S3 will either. By this logic I think rFactor is overpriced as well, but it has the mod community behind it, and they can do great things.

To me, the LFS developer's seemingly relentless pursuit of realism is what justifies the cost of LFS.

I want reassurance though, and reading these comparison threads is a good way to get reassurance.

[DasKlee]

Now compare it with... everybody's favourite punching bag, GT4....

i can't compare it, because it'S a PS2 game and i do not own one ;)

but even the GT series has the same scheme - you do not get the new graphics if you own GT1 once GT2, GT3 or GT4 comes out - you also do not get the new physics or other features, you have to buy every single copy

that's what i wanted to say with my comparison - i do not want to compare gameplay (how can i compare gameplay of LfS with madden football or championship manager) it was just and only related to the quote, that some people see it as one game costing 3 times 12 pounds or 3 times 18 euros - which is the wrong way to look at it in my eyes

when S1 came out, it wasn't worse than most of the games available at that time - thus it was real cheap. now even without getting a S2 license, you can upgrade your S1 game for free to all the new S2 innovations - you can't do that to any other game that age (at least not from the developers and without 3rd party mods) and you will be able to upgrade it to all S3 innovations, as soon as S3 is out (using soon related to the S3 release sounds strange to me *g*)

you're only forced to buy new licenses to get additional content

if this content is worth the 12 pounds/18 euros is up to everyone to decide (i think it is - that's why there is an S2 licensed under my name)

[Mattesa]

Yes, I do understand what you mean now. And it brings me a bit closer to getting that S2 license. :nod:

[keiran]

You just can't compare LFS and GT4. GT4 may have extra content but the physics have been slapped together. I have GT4 but to me it's just a bit of fun, especially the Photo mode :D The devs at LFS must only get there income from this game (as far as I'm aware this is there job) so they need to make some money and I think £12 each stage is a bargain. If you were really cheap all you would have to do is buy one stage and you'd still get all the new graphics, physics etc this you can't do with any other game I know.

I don't have rFactor and I will not buy it without a demo to show it off. From what I've heard it's no LFS matcher and the graphics look worse than games I remember playing on my 133MHZ computer and god knows what directx version. For me ISI games have never felt right, I don't feel as if I'm behind the wheel of the car. Live for Speed is the only game that does this for me, I can actually feel the car and react to whats it's doing. Comparing it to the rF MP demo it just didn't feel right there seemed a lack of feel to the car. Another part I don't like about it is the way ISI are relying on the community to finish the game for them, thats not what I want. A community can only repair some parts of a game they can't hide all the bad bits.

Just my two pence worth :smileypul

Keiran

[Theafro]

just a quickie really: my first impression was one of confusion and frustration, having opted to pay online after download i proceeded to put my card details in, an error the popped up and it crashed! after that it wouldn't run just 'cos of 'windowed being unchecked'!? , GRRRRRRRR!

my second impression; tonigt i've got it fired up and spent the best part of an hour trying to tweak the ff into some kind of shape, it merely seems to fight me! i don't know if it's just me but rfactor seems that it is very weak and generally rough as far as the 'experience' goes.

[psy00]

man i feel that i bought my momo wheel just for lfs but i bought lfs for the momo wheel :) LOL , i tried GPL demo and it just don't feel right for me ... i don't like slow speed turns in lfs too much but if this is right i am with them :) you must get know the car first before you can suit it to your style :)

[Richard Torp]

After 36 hours i asked for a refund for rFactor.
I tried everything to love this game, but in my world only one game counts, LFS S2...:nana:
rFactos doesn`t seem to be right for me. The feeling of the cars, the bad grapichs, trouble getting good ff from my black Momo and a lot more ended my rFactor history. And most of the times i looked after some on-line players but could hardly find any who would stay for longer than few minutes. CTD during 2 of my SHORT races. Netcode seems to be ok after all imo.

:heart: S2 and S3...

[deggis]

where ? i just cant find it ... 9cough9 badly designed website 9cough9
http://racecast.rfactor.net/?go=vehicles
http://racecast.rfactor.net/?go=tracks

My bad... forgot to mension that it was the Racecast website, not rFactor's "real" website. :)

[spankmeyer]

OMG, just cmon..they have been working like hell, dont you think they should have litle time off too? They could have been not to give us the Alpha, so please, give them a litle break :)

Nonono I didn't mean anything negative with my comment, trust me, I was only curious. If the Devs are on a vacation in Honolulu that's cool with me - they have earned their reward, no question about it. Peace! :)

EDIT: Looking at the progress reports, looks like there aren't any big promised features missing in alpha. Secretly wishing the Devs have some aces stuffed up in their sleeves for S2 Full... Again, peace out! :)

[tristancliffe]

At the October karting event I plan to peer up Scawen's sleeve to see what he's hiding.

He seems to love surprises...

[Silly]

The attached video file (xvid, zip'ed only because of forum restrictions) shows me coming out of turn one at Lime Rock Park a bit too eagerly. Sadly, I can't add an attachment to convey to you what the force feedback feels like, so you'll have to make do with my description.

FF in rF (heh) is very well done: the steering goes light at the correct times, and the rear wheels regain traction with a nice, satisfying snap (you can just notice a tiny flick* in the vid). In LFS, the steering only goes light when you lock the wheels under braking (linear grip gone), but large to extreme slip-angles still produce the same "the wheels should be pointing there!" force feedback, which is odd. The transition from grip to sliding in the lateral dimension is obviously wrong in LFS. Any improvement here would vastly improve the sim.

I find getting out of slide like this actually a bit more difficult in rF than in LFS. This may be because the FF keeps telling you where to point the wheels in LFS - or perhaps it's because I've played LFS a lot more than rF so far.

The replays in rF don't seem to have smoke or skidmarks. On the upside, you can go back and forth in time and there are basic editing controls.


----
(*) Here, I avoided the term "jerk" because some of you undoubtedly would have wanted to ask "What? You mean the driver?" (j/k) ;) :D :D

[peeps1980]

Well I bought rFactor on Thursday and I have only played it for about, erm let me see, 10 minutes ish, what a waste of money.

It looks horrible and feels so cheap. Is it just me or does it look too smooth? Theres no detail at all, it's like everything is smudged.

It feels and drives exactly like GTR and that is sat in my drawer aswell, that had a life span of about 10 minutes aswell, I guess I have a nack for wasting money hehe.

I can remember playing the demo when it came out ( racing round with Looney if my memory serves my correctly :) ) and I wasn't overly keen on it but it was fun and I could see room for improvment but having bought the full game now, just to try it mind because there's no demo, I am really dissapointed :(

I'll keep it installed to see if any updates come out but I seriously doubt I will play it ever again.

peeps :)

[Doorman]

After an intense session, I got things going as good as they'll get--I think! I've come to the conclusion that if I have to try this hard to like a game, or in fact anything, I really shouldn't have it. Therefore I've asked for a refund.

S2 is still the DBs and I have good feelings about what is to come given the devs past record.

[colcob]

Yeah, I really wanted this to be good, and no prior bias against it. Sadly it has resisted all my attempts to get to like it. Its cheap* and nasty, and frankly naff. Refund requested.

*Although not that cheap, they quote prices in british pounds, but dont add british VAT, or even tell you that local tax will be added which is just downright deception. So note folks, it doesnt cost £25.99, it costs £30.54

[Ondrejko]

http://www.autosimsport.com/
http://www.autosimsport.com/issues/autosimsport_1_8.zip
review of rFactor. its pdf document

[DarkTimes]

I like it, but then I like RBR, GTR, LFS, N2003, GTL Demo etc as well. I think the physics are very good, the way the car reacts with the track feels very realistic, based on my own limited experience of real racing. In LFS you feel more like you are in a real racing car, but then GTR feels that even more so.

For me it's not a competition, all these racing sims offer something different and each has a different feel. Ultimately it's down to which one you find the most fun to play, which for me is still LFS simply because of its quick fire stress-free multiplayer mode

Whichever, I always have fun playing racing sims, I love them all. Really we should be grateful, whichever sim you choose you will find something deep which you will enjoy a lot.

I can afford both LFS and rF without worrying, but then maybe I work too much. ;)

[Mr. Jones]

Well I bought rFactor on Thursday and I have only played it for about, erm let me see, 10 minutes ish, what a waste of money.

It looks horrible and feels so cheap. Is it just me or does it look too smooth? Theres no detail at all, it's like everything is smudged.

It feels and drives exactly like GTR and that is sat in my drawer aswell, that had a life span of about 10 minutes aswell, I guess I have a nack for wasting money hehe.

I can remember playing the demo when it came out ( racing round with Looney if my memory serves my correctly :) ) and I wasn't overly keen on it but it was fun and I could see room for improvment but having bought the full game now, just to try it mind because there's no demo, I am really dissapointed :(

I'll keep it installed to see if any updates come out but I seriously doubt I will play it ever again.

peeps :)

Lol. Sorry...if you give ANYTHING just 10 min you're a fool. Go back to your PS2. BTW, I'm not biased on either sim. I did purchase rF over LFS. I like it, it has weak points, it has strong points. Time will tell. Not 10 min. rotfl.

[L(Oo)ney]

:rolleyes:

Hey hey Peeps, feel free to send me your copy of GTR and Rfactor, i'll play em if you wont, theres no point letting them just sit there. :P

Nice to see you finally made it, what took you so long?

[Gunn]

Lol. Sorry...if you give ANYTHING just 10 min you're a fool. Go back to your PS2. BTW, I'm not biased on either sim. I did purchase rF over LFS. I like it, it has weak points, it has strong points. Time will tell. Not 10 min. rotfl.He said it looked horrible and felt cheap. One could say if it takes you more than 10 minutes to discover that about a game, then there's something wrong. He gave his opinion of the game, and you are entitled to yours, but we don't want to hear your opinion of him. Leave the personal stuff out of it please.

[Theafro]

I'll be honest and say i was more than underwhelmed with rfactor, i was quite shocked by how much it stank of GPL, not that gpl was a bad game just a very old one now, it has similar (clunky,confusing) GUI and a very unpolished look allround. the FF is very poor, and doesn't tell you much through it's repetoire of canned effects. I'm not bitching, but i can't help feeling slightly ripped off at the mo, i was never given the impression that the game would be so unfinished. i seriously hope most of these issues get sorted out. it IS a cool game with some cool features, it just doesn't cut it as a sim, not YET! :)

LFS is smoother, more complete, has much better cars/tracks, has decent FF, more balanced sounds and it's cheaper! i'll play LFS please!

[peeps1980]

:rolleyes:

Hey hey Peeps, feel free to send me your copy of GTR and Rfactor, i'll play em if you wont, theres no point letting them just sit there. :P

Nice to see you finally made it, what took you so long?

Sure why not hehe :) I've been on this forum for ages now but I guess my presense is overdue, so here I am guys lol!

He said it looked horrible and felt cheap. One could say if it takes you more than 10 minutes to discover that about a game, then there's something wrong. He gave his opinion of the game, and you are entitled to yours, but we don't want to hear your opinion of him. Leave the personal stuff out of it please.

Thanks Gunn :) You can tell instantly with things if they are not right for you, you shouldn't have to sit there for hours on end trying to like it, what the hell is the point? I must admit though I think it was slightly longer than 10 minutes if you take into account the setting up of the game rofl :) Perhaps 20 minutes is more realistic ;)

peeps

[tailing]

To be honest I think anything less than a couple of days is not enough to evaluate a sim, some things you can tell are good or bad almost immediately but to really evaluate a physics engine you need time imo.

[Rob76]

To be honest I think anything less than a couple of days is not enough to evaluate a sim, some things you can tell are good or bad almost immediately but to really evaluate a physics engine you need time imo.

Unless the physics engine really stinks (e.g Spirit of Speed 1937), it probably takes a while to evaluate it properly. You can probably only really judge it once you have some good setups too. But if something doesn't feel right immediately then there is probably something wrong, which the user will have great difficulty getting past until the sim is updated or modded, whether they invest hours, days or weeks trying to like it.

I think you can judge many other aspects much more quickly. The front end, graphics and general playability are all things you can judge within the first hour easily, and if they don't feel right straight away the impressions will be hard to shake.

For me, the rFactor demo didn't do it for me. It was instantly easy to throw the cars around, save spins, etc. in an arcadey way. This meant it was instant 'fun' for all, but didn't have much long term appeal for me. The track and object graphics were OK but oddly coloured and not crisp, the car models were tuner style caricatures and the cockpits were awful. All of this I judged quickly. It's saving grace was some reasonable netcode offering some instantly accessible racing (probably the point as it was a netcode test). In general the initial impression was not great, which was in complete contrast to LFS (even back in the pre-S1 days) which impressed right from the first minute.

The fact that rFactor does not have a current demo of the released product means I can either buy the product unseen or stick with LFS. As the rF devs are relying on my first impressions of the multiplayer demo (which undoubtedly has old content, including physics) to win me over, I think they've made a big mistake.

I'm currently sticking with LFS. rFactor may get a chance if they release a new demo which impresses me and if some fantastic mod is released offering historic cars and real life tracks. Even then I only foresee it being used as the mod platform. For fantasy tracks and cars and good online racing LFS has it all.

[Mr. Jones]

He said it looked horrible and felt cheap. One could say if it takes you more than 10 minutes to discover that about a game, then there's something wrong. He gave his opinion of the game, and you are entitled to yours, but we don't want to hear your opinion of him. Leave the personal stuff out of it please.

Ok I was a bit harsh. Wasn't meant personally. Just seemed like a very driven opinion that was meant to flame. I'll go back to my f3 and let you guys sort it out. :) Cheers!