Sound and lap times.

[vrooom]

Im deaf gamer. I am slow, about 5-7 seconds behind wr record and i push car really hard and still too slow. and this has baffled me for long time.

Is it me or sound help alots in LFS ?

Do sound in lfs "improve" the lap times or not?

Can you do laps of your favortine car on your favorite track with sound, and without sound. and can you post your best lap times from each session?

How do you feel driving without sound? harder to drive or??

I would like to see the result. so i can put it down to my skills or lack of sound.

[_rod_]

I think that you could drive without sound, specially if you have a good ffb wheel. 2nd trying post a replay of yours and see what people say about your driving.

[Jakg]

sound - tyres feedback through sound and FFB, but although FFB helps, you can hear them squirm

PS - if this makes no sense, sorry, the batteries in my k/b are dead and im drunk!

[Micaoct]

You can still drive without sound, but for me I believe it helps me alot. I feel odd if there's no sound, but if you have a FF wheel it should be the same. :shrug:

[zeugnimod]

I need sound to be fast (some might call it slow :shy: ) very much. Even cant drive with winamp on.

I judge when to shift with the sound; I hear, when there are cars close to me. Cant imagine driving without.

[K.David]

The biggest advantage sound gives (to me) is that it makes me aware of approaching cars. Without sound, you'd have to look around, which makes me dizzy and can't keep the car in a straight line.:shy:

[Tukko]

well I can't drive without sound:shrug: tried sometimes but it was impossible to do decent times .

I need to hear the engine, tyres, cars around me etc...

[Darkone55]

Without sound I'm about half a second slower than normally, so it is a difference, but it's not that much.

[Michael Denham]

I think it can really help. As well as hearing tires squeal to indicate the limit of grip, I find the most useful thing is hearing the engine revs rise for wheelspin.

I'd imagine with practice you could close the difference in times between sound and no sound, but I'd imagine it would be very difficult to be as quick without. I'll give it a go sometime on a short combo with and without sound and see how the times compare...

Quick question, do you have a force feedback wheel?

[Honey]

Without sound I'm about half a second slower than normally, so it is a difference, but it's not that much.
same for me. sometimes i have to turn off the sound for some minutes...and it's bad...half second slower, a lot of mistakes -> sound gives important feedback about grip of tyres and engine noise, it would be very nice if devs caould make some small leds that represent which kind of tyre sound is played, that would be a very good thing for deaf people but also for those who have to play lfs without sound from time to time...

vrooom, maybe you can try to ask scawen to implement this in the forthcoming patch, it's a thing easy to implement, mabe you will be lucky...:thumb:

[vrooom]

Yes i have ffb wheel. Logitech Momo racing. :)

[ATHome]

I've done a quick test using FOX @ FE Club with a 3 lap race. I'm not a good driver and I don't have a good setup, but anyway, here are my results:

With sound:
Best lap time 37.72 Lap 2

Without sound:
Best lap time 38.06 Lap 2


So i guess it improves my times a bit to hear what the car is doing. And I wasn't really sure if the selected gear is the right one.

I've attached the two replays, so you could have a look at where I was faster/slower with/withour sound.

[Callous Hooper]

I find that without sound I tend to forget to change gears, up mainly.
I find it very difficult.

[i30i3i3y]

I was really intrigued by this thread so I had a go. I tested FOX on BLGP. MY PB is 1.09.86 although I lap consistently in the 1.10s(3 seconds off WR pace). I did 15 laps without sound and managed a 1.10.22 and most clean laps were 1.10s. I'm sure with a bit more practice I could do better.

I only had a few late shifts as I do use the little red indicator. I was in the wrong gear a couple of times, found i wasn't getting enough power, looked at the dash and realized. But I also found I was hitting corners more aggressively, I think the screeching unnerves me. I only spun out twice from getting on the gas too early, but I don't think having sound helps much there (just gives auditory feedback confirming you're screwed).

I believe you can be pretty competitive without sound. I'm managing 3s off WR pace with 15 minutes of practice. Although I don't know how I'd fare being stuck in the middle of a pack with no sound (I use cockpit view). I rely on sound there to let me know if cars are nearby. I'd assume at WR level sound is pretty important. Maybe some WR holders will have a go :).

It'd be good if some type of aid can be developed for deaf gamers. I'm sure if some idea's were thrown up the dev's would be happy to implement it.

[Bawbag]

I think the biggest disadvantage to me would be the tyres and changing gears but I generally see the red light popping up so I change gear then.

I'm sure i've drove with no sound before and I cant remember a differnce.

But if it's any condolence, the sounds in LFS arn't to great ATM. It may be the setup that your using or just the wrong lines, so if you need any help you can send me a PM or in LFS world and I would gladly help you out. :)

[J.B.]

How about a mod that sends signals to a vibration game pad (or similar) increasing speed as the engine revs increase. You could then feel the engine at least, wouldn't help for tyre sounds though.

I'm no expert but I think this could probably already be done using OutGauge by someone with relevant skillz0rz, no dev intervention required.

Yes, I believe that the tyre sounds help a lot in terms of replacing the G-force feedback you get in real life. So maybe some kind of bass shaker would help.

[Bawbag]

Maybe just 2 simple bars, like teh throttle and brake bars. Like at the side or somewhere you could have a bar which goes full when you need to change gear. And for the skidding surely there could be some sort of bar again which shows how much skindding the tyre is doing.

Just an idea as the tyre skidding is something that used to get me alot when starting out in the game and everybody at early stages turn to much.

[Plastik8]

I believe you can be pretty competitive without sound. I'm managing 3s off WR pace with 15 minutes of practice. Although I don't know how I'd fare being stuck in the middle of a pack with no sound (I use cockpit view). I rely on sound there to let me know if cars are nearby. I'd assume at WR level sound is pretty important. Maybe some WR holders will have a go :).

I believe you would be alot slower, if you were to drive with no sound with a car / track combo that you have never raced before. Because you'd done plenty of laps on BLGP with the FOX, you could probably do it with your eye's closed..... Imagine being a new player to LFS, having to learn to drive all the cars and all the tracks without being able to hear. I think you would be alot slower than someone that could hear....... I guess with enough practise though, one could improve their times to a time close to the WR, but it would take much longer than a non-deaf player.

Anyway, to the original poster, would one of those special racing seats with speakers built in to them be of any help? That way the speakers would vibrate your hole body... I don't know much about deafness, but this could be an idea?

[steve]

As you are deaf, might I suggest a couple of BASS Shakers? perhaps you could set them up under your chair and have it so you can actually 'feel' the sound through vibrations. :scratchch

[i30i3i3y]

Imagine being a new player to LFS, having to learn to drive all the cars and all the tracks without being able to hear. I think you would be alot slower than someone that could hear....... I guess with enough practise though, one could improve their times to a time close to the WR, but it would take much longer than a non-deaf player.

I agree the learning curve would be much steeper but I was merely saying that lack of sound shouldn't limit your potential.

As for a solution, how about a screech-o-meter of sorts. Basically a visually representation of the sound we hear. We hear the sound and realise things are about to go pearshaped, deaf gamers can look at this meter/bar and realise the same. The bass shakers and kev's idea sound pretty good too.

On a different note; vrooom, how do you feel racing in packs? I don't think I'd be able to without sound.

[Jertje]

I agree the learning curve would be much steeper but I was merely saying that lack of sound shouldn't limit your potential.
True. I've just tried AS Club Rev, which I've been practicing with the FXR for about a day. I was able to drive 1.00.83 without sound in the 2nd lap, my PB is 0.59.90, and the WR with this combo is 0.59.00, so the difference after just 2 minutes of practicing was already fairly minimal.
Of course it would have been a lot harder to learn the track and the handling of the car if I started practicing deaf, or without sound, but the potential to go fast is definitely there!

Sound is important to know how far you're pushing the car and how far you can still push it without breaking the laws of physics, however all the queues given by the sound are also visually present, although much less noticable. The skidding of the car and tires is visible as well, although very subtle. With no need to focus on sound, your brain will automatically find other signs to help you out. The longer you've been deaf, the better you become at using your other senses.

By watching and analysing, purely visually, what fast drivers do to get such laptimes, it should be possible to mimick their speed and achieve similar laptimes, although it will take longer to achieve than a hearing driver, but where there's a will, there's a way!

Driving in a pack will be more difficult than just driving fast since sound also gives you signs about things not visible on screen, but I do believe there are mods to indicate overtaking cars?

In the end, it all comes down to practice. Lots and lots of practice. Rest assured though, deaf-driving is still a lot easier than driving when you're blind ;)

Edit: If this has any relevance; I drive without any FFB since I find it sort of distracting. This doesn't make me drive faster, but it makes me feel better ;D

[dawesdust_12]

I have driven some races with no sound on, and I found I was at the same pace I was at before, just a little harder and I felt that I lost traction more than I did before.

[axus]

and im drunk!

Behave! :scratchch You're only what, 14? :razz:

[Jakg]

Behave! :scratchch You're only what, 14? :razz:15... :D

It was a birthday present from my parent of all people

[NotAnIllusion]

Im deaf gamer. I am slow, about 5-7 seconds behind wr record and i push car really hard and still too slow. and this has baffled me for long time.

Is it me or sound help alots in LFS ?

Do sound in lfs "improve" the lap times or not?
I'm not at my LFS PC at the moment but as said before, tire squeal is quite important but to be honest you can generally see when you're over/understeering after some practice. More crucially because you should be looking at the road, not the dash, hearing the revs helps because without hearing them it's sometimes near enough impossible to tell when the engine is about to bog down and whether you are in the right gear.

So yes, I think it makes a big difference :shrug:

(will try to remember to post results of no-sound lapping..)

[Bawbag]

15... :D

It was a birthday present from my parent of all people


Damn, How come I never got to sniff empty vodka bottles? :x

[Slartibartfast]

I have my pedals against a piece of wood which is against my subwoofer. It gives me an excellent representation of what the engine is doing. Not so much on the tires. However, some small tranducers, like a small pair of headphones, taken apart and built into two separate bracelets might do the trick. So, a stereo speaker system with a sub woofer, headphone bracelet instead of speakers, a roomate to tell you when it's too loud, and off you go.

Also, I'm kinda thinking an added gauge in the F9 view might be sorta easy. Something fed by the forces view, but not so sproingy. Maybe four little bars that go from green to yellow to red...

[Michael Denham]

Of course it would have been a lot harder to learn the track and the handling of the car if I started practicing deaf, or without sound, but the potential to go fast is definitely there!
I think this is definitely an important point. :scratchch

[ste_]

As you are deaf, might I suggest a couple of BASS Shakers? perhaps you could set them up under your chair and have it so you can actually 'feel' the sound through vibrations. :scratchch
He's deaf not blind, no need for all bold :p

[Rtsbasic]

Without sound I'm a little off pace, about a second or so. Thing is with sound, you only hear stuff after its happened, so you react to it, instead of taking control of it and preventing it from happening at all. So I don't believe it makes a big difference to laptimes if you pratice without sound. Racing in a pack though, you would be at a slight disadvantage.

If you have ever played a PS2 game called Enthusia, that has an interesting display system that I would imagine is very useful when played without sound. It has A G force display that also shows how loaded each individual tyre is, and how close you are to their traction limit. Maybe one day such a feature will be integrated into LFS, or written by a 3rd party as an overlay app.

[J_Matrix]

Maybe just 2 simple bars, like teh throttle and brake bars. Like at the side or somewhere you could have a bar which goes full when you need to change gear. And for the skidding surely there could be some sort of bar again which shows how much skindding the tyre is doing.

Just an idea as the tyre skidding is something that used to get me alot when starting out in the game and everybody at early stages turn to much.

That could be an idea. I need to hear tyres sound to be aware if they are spinning or not.. otherwise all the rest just gives more "awareness" of what's around of you (followers, cars near you and such) but i guess that as someone else said your momo with better FF settings may allow you to get decent times. Anyway Bawbag's bar idea is a good one, +2 for me!

[steve]

He's deaf not blind, no need for all bold :p


haha I only bolded it because I knew someone would make that comment :P